Never had too much of an issue with APDS, being a Brit main I just got used to it, and the stabilizers were nice.
HESH, however, is utterly ridiculous and needs to be fixed ASAP.
21 Likes
All shells are consistent as that’s how game programming works.
If you’re claiming a round is consistent, that means players are more skilled.
APDS has been buffed a few times over the years.
I am a brit main too and APDS bamboozles me sometimes. I mean its more reliable than HESH for now.
Consistent in the round doing whats its supposed to. Like if I shot 5 tigers in the exact spot where I knew they would ammo detonate or do massive damage and maybe 4/5 times it happened then its a little more consistent.
HESH is not consistent in the fact I shoot someone with the power of the sun and it does nothing.
3 Likes
The M-51 has no problems with Hesh and I have been sent to the shadow realm by the British Death barn.
This is a hidden modifier its never going to be changed there’s a reason why you literally cannot replicate shells shattering in customs
Whats to fix with HESH, even IRL its an inconsistent shell thats only useful against concrete structures and literally nothing else the only change i could see is just giving it a crew stun effect so an enemy tank becomes inoperable for a few seconds
APHE has been overperforming massively for a decade now id rather every shell be complete ass rather than everything become a oneshot nuke
3 Likes
I shot a BTR in the side with a 183mm HESH and it did nothing.
3 Likes
The centurion AVRE has a weaker hesh (allegedly) but I get a lot more consistent kills with it. It was fixed for a while, you could even knock a T90 out on the upper plate through the ERA like a 70kg explosive shell would, they tweaked the hesh rework and its shit again
Doubt it
Exactly the problem. APHE in real life performed much like AP in terms of spalling. The changes aimed to make APHE more realistic which is both a nerf and a buff.
I never really had extreme problems with APDS to call it trash. Its a good round from my experience.
HESH on the other hand I haven’t used but I know about its shit performance.
1 Like
Because 90% of the vehicles in game use it and it over performs by a mile.
Shell shatter is what needs to be removed. Apds and other solid ammo should bounce inside tanks like it once could.
2 Likes
HESH was entirely competent against vehicles, especially soviet rubbish. Hence considered for projects such as FV4005. Not the least flawed option, but you are selling it a bit short.
5 Likes
BESH needs to be good again!!!
lmao no it wasn’t, the reason why they had to go with pretty much a naval gun was because HESH is a completely useless shell, the 4005 was built under the pretext of apparently needing it for the IS-3 and the project was cancelled because someone had realised its a stupid idea to have a 183mm as a tank destroyer when the new 105mm L7 is far better in every category even the US when developing the M109 took one look at having a HESH shell developed and immediately threw it out
The 4005 was only considered out of desperation because of the IS-3 and what we had assumed would be even heavier tanks rolling out and then we developed the 105mm which killed heavy tanks as a concept
Genuinely HESH staying as our main Anti-infantry and demolition round for over 80 years is one of the dumbest things despite it being completely obselote then again we operate the challenger 2 mediocrity and obsolescence seems to be a running thing for our military
1 Like
Pretty good way to establish you’re not worth engaging with.
3 Likes
They should make HESH shake the screen and blur it and cause tinnitus and shock the crew (the player). But imo taking away control is a big no, because then it’s kind of like “i’m being shot and there’s nothing i can do about it.” Think about how it feels to be shot at in a casemate with no tracks and you can’t shoot back, except for literally anything. Not fun, shouldn’t be done. Effects as far as I’m concerned are fair game tho
Not really the case because there’s a lot of RNG in the game.
In general the “issue” with APHE was always how it exploded in sphere, making it much more effective than solid AP, APCR, APDS, or HESH which all deal damage in a cone from the impact zone, which should be the same with APHE, just that the cone would be delayed due to fuze delay.
This resultet in APHE with the by far the highest chance to knock out vehicle in a single shot, with overpressure making it even easier.
Vehicles are balanced by their performance and APHE was far the most effective shell, even when it lacks armor penetration, simply because the prefered way to shoot a tank, is the sides, as it has the least amount of armor there.
So the same vehicle firing APHE would see a significant increase in BR compared to vehicles that fired solid shot.
Now, why is that bad? Because APHE wouldn’t be that effective, if it behaved physically correct.
Thus more advanced rounds like APCR would be preferable, instead of being only useful for niche situations.
The issue is, that every round in general has its application, rarely will a shell make the whole vehicle vulnerable and when it does, it might not work for another.
HESH is limited by armor thickness, and will explode hitting tracks and sidesskirts and has generally low velocity compared to APDS.
Similiar, APCR can penetrate thick armor but will also struggle going through the angled side of a tank, particular with tracks and roadwheels in the way.
Pz IV: Pzgr. 39 and Super APCR vs T-34
Note that protection analysis doesn’t work for APCR, at least for me but as you can see, even Super APCR for the 75mm doesn’t penetrate the sloped upper side or the lower sides through the roadwheels and tracks.
However out of all the rounds, APHE would often just kill a vehicle in one shot, which is a huge tactical advantage. Not only is a threat eliminated but you are rewarded with more SP, while the enemy team loses tickets. At the end of the day, kills are also going to pay your bill, so it’s frustrating to penetrate tanks and not get rewarded.
The main issue is the issue with the behavour of APHE is that it leads to discrepancies in killing power, that simply shouldn’t exist.
And the main way to fix that, is to change the kill requirements, so that after APHE behaves physically correct the lethality of all rounds is increased.
No one likes playing the FV4005, shoot a 72kg HESH round at a target, only to knock out the loader and breech, with a reload so long that tanks might be almost repaired by the time you fire again.
There must be limits to how much damage is acceptable for the vehicle to continue to fight, or how effective it’s going to be.
In WT it takes at most 10sec for a crew member to take over the position.
Now imagine your whole screen turning black, or being forced to driver view because you just got shot and your commander is dead.
Without commander your tank is practically blind, and one guy is going to have a lot of trouble seeing whats happening outside the tank, loading and operating the gun at the same time.
Damage from all shells is for the most part artifically increased, to even somewhat compete with APHE. But reducing the damage and changing shell behavour to reality, while making internal components not repairable, would not only decrese the TTK but also rewarding good aim.
Vehicles with modern ammuniton would also see a rise in BR and become much more competetive.
If we finally got dynamic BRs based on ammunition module, you could effectively play your M36 with HEAT-FS post-war and fight T-54s in a M41 Bulldog, instead of putting post-war vehicles, at the same or lower BR as their WW2 counterpart, simply because they lack the reliability of firing APHE rounds.
Imagine a JPz 4-5 that doesn’t share the same BR as a WW2 Jagdpanther.
3 Likes
Almost like you don’t want to get shot in the first place.
The problem is not that HESH isn’t able to penetrate armor, the problem is that it will not knock out a vehicle, even when the half the crew was just turned into bloody potato mash.
HESH quickly become obsolete for targeting tanks, since it’s so easy to protect against and it also has very poor velocity.
Even though it still has applications in destorying enemy defenses.
But when it hits a tank and “penetrates” the armor, it will most likely be able to knock it out.
1 Like
Bit off, but I’ve always wondered how different the flow of battle and all that would be like if damaged optics/cupola/wounded commander caused sections of the screen to go black or if it limited your fov to only what the driver/gunner can see