Title is simple as. I’m not looking to blame or shame here; I’m simply curious. Is there a reason so many people voluntarily ignore the SPAAG lines? Or refuse to play SPAAG? Ignoring top tier, there is a fair opportunity to rack up kills and SL/RP in games, and I’ve never understood why people are so adamantly against playing SPAAG. But that’s why I’m asking here.
Also, would there be anything to help CHANGE people’s mind and convince them to play SPAAG? Just curious.
SPAA is difficult to use, not fun and unrewarding.
But what about early radar SPAAG? Like the M163, M247, or ZSU-37/23s? Or Gepards? Those are all very fun and rather simply to use. Point, use lock button, follow the lead with slight adjustments as needed for radar deviation.
I mean; it isn’t that that difficult. So why not play that?
The issue I’ve found with the Cheiften Marksman is that the lead indicator is crap. Quite often I’ve found that “manually” aiming can produce better results.
I couldnt find the quote, but Smin has confirmed that radar guided SPAAG have induced errors to make aiming harder. Which does just suck. I quite enjoy sitting in later SPAA, like the Stormer HVM and ADATS, providing AA, but those earlier ones are more frustrating than fun at times.
Takes a long time to get to any radar SPAA, long after people have been put off playing SPAA.
And then the radar guidance is a mess and barely helpful, the SPAA is good because of the high RoF and turret handling opposed to WW2 SPAA, not because of the radar.
It still remains difficult to use, not fun and unrewarding.
I don’t quite understand why past 7.7 and above when radar guided guns become common (except the M167, the radar blows). The Shilka, Gepard, Yensei, and M247 have been good to me as radar guided guns. The Chapparal and LAV-AD are pretty good missile platforms again jets but not helis. And the XM-975 is amazing against helicopters. The 2S38 (AAA called a light tank) is quite effective against all targets. I don’t see why the Shilka M4 or Gepard 1A2 wouldn’t perform well against helis (with guns) and against planes (with missiles). SACLOS missile launchers seem to take a bit of practice to get used to but seem successful enough at top tier if people can complain endlessly about the Pantsir.
Below 7.7 and those lacking radar guided guns is a different story. I see it as a problem that most of the platforms are over br’d because of ground unit leathality and face planes that are usually a bit on the fast side to be facing those SPAA. If they could go down because they would lose some ground attack capability, I think they would face slower aircraft and become more useful.
One of the biggest problems that contributes to these lower ranking gun SPAA problems is desync. You can’t tell if you hit them square or not and it may look like you hit then with 40 shells, but none registered because of that desync. Happens with the planes too. I’ve been pilot sniped by tracer lines 2 planelengths behind me. I suppose it is lile the ghost shell problem for tanks.
ground unit lethality
SPAA’s are not lethal against ground in a significant capacity aside from a ZSU 57-2 or Falcon and maybe some of the French ones, but these are so bad against air that there isn’t a choice anyways, aside from that I can’t imagine any SPAA getting over BR’d because they have a k/d of 0.5 against ground.
Because the radar lead is not always accurate, and you don’t always have access to that SPAA. France now lacks SPAA from 6.0-8.7 for example. You also don’t get radar SPAA below 7.7.
The Amx-13 DCA 40 went from 4.3 to 5.0 in RB because of its anti tank capabilities, or at least I assume that is why. It only had a single 40mm bofors cannon, which doesn’t give it very good AA capabilities.
It wasn’t even that good as a TD at 4.3, any Russian tank had enough armour to resist you, and it was incredibly weak against anything with a .50.
The ones that carry HVAP are. The ZSU-57-2 and Falcon are the most extreme examples. The full HVAP of the Praga and Zerstörer 45 give them very good capability against ground units. Especially in BRs where the vehicles they are attacking are slow to react and can struggle to fight back if they are attacked from the side. Especially when you can destroy a barrel quickly with dual/quad 30mm cannons. Same with the M42 and its AP belt.
Yeah but those are more the exception, 94mm of pen is a crazy amount of pen on a .5s reload, but too slow to engage planes for anyone who isn’t very experienced.
Right now it’s not in a bad place, better k/d than quite a number of vehicles.
Yeah, because the Praga is somehow allowed to get a pure HVAP belt at 6.3 but the Kugelblitz cannot get a lower pen HVAP belt at 7.0 without 66% of the belt being HE for some godforsaken reason… it completely lacks the armor though and against US it gets shredded.
And who the hell understands why the Zerstorer gets full HVAP again with the same guns as the Kugelblitz?
Shooting things from the side works for almost anything at any BR however, if something flanks you it doesn’t really matter if it’s an SPAA or not.
Neither of them is effective against tanks though, being at the peak BR of WW2 heavies.
It does because that capability is part of their balancing. If it wasnt there, they could be lowered.
They are effective against tanks, they have dual/quan cannons that can decimate the sides of pretty much anything, barring a few exceptions. They can be played like autocannon lights, and they have the ability to dust anything without significant armor like light tanks and light TDs. Also, heavy tanks aren’t the only things on the battlefield. Mediums Casemates also exist and suffer from these autocannons tracking them, then destroying their barrels, and being defenseless if they don’t get the jump on these HVAP/high pen AP guns. The Praga is especially good at peeking corners and deleting folks wothout putting the whole crew in danger.
These ratios are really neat from Thunderskill and its wildy inaccurate and extremely small sample size. SPAA shouldn’t be judged on ground K/D. That means they are overperforming outside their role. They should be balanced by air K/D, and they can’t be dropped based on thay when they have the simple ability to be an effective TD/light tank.
Practically none of them have noteworthy k/ds against ground bar a few mentioned for it to be a problem, and there is nothing that suggest an SPAA should not be allowed to get ground kills.
And besides, the Type 81 went from 10.0 to 11.3 in a matter of months with zero ability to defend itself against ground forces, yet somehow is perceived to be on par with a Pantsir with 40km radar, 20km missile, 4x 30mm cannons and more missiles?
Oh, and they ‘consider lineups’ they said, by placing an SPAA at 11.3 without a lineup.
Horrific tracking information but otherwise “fun”. Poor mobility, open top, easily killed.
9.0 isn’t early lol it’s also awful until you unlock proxies and even then you’re going to die to space bombers.
It’s not error in so much as deviation, Radars are not 100% efficient
WT’s system is already super simplified compared to IRL
SPAAs focus should be air, not ground. That is the point I’m trying to make. Until their primary focus is on killing aircraft then their BRs will not reflect where they could be more effective in their expected role. It is somewhat crazy to me that you cannot get full HE belts and are forced to use nigh useless AP rounds against aircraft, which result in those guns getting mere “hits” that do very little.
SPAAs focus should be air, not ground.
Okay and air doesn’t exist half the time, which means their focus is nothing if they cannot do anything else.
Playing the Type 81 I just watch Youtube videos as there is nothing else to do, air is not a guarantee, and even when it is, a Pantsir on your team will detect it way before you do, and kill it way before you can get a lock, I wouldn’t even play the Type 81 if I didn’t have a second monitor to focus on instead.
And as it sits at 11.3 it’s pretty clear it is not the 81’s ground force capability that sets the BR or prevents it from being any lower.
yet they also suffer from not being able to hit half the cas unless said cas is a new player
Okay, and they can spawn once enemy air power has appeared on their next death. It isn’t like you pick one vehicle for the whole match. I like to first spawn my 7.7+ spaa to pick off first spawn helis and them defend the sky for the rest of the match. Countering aircraft is so fun and useful since it wrecks SP efficiency for the other team
Ahh, an exception to the discussion of LOW RANK GUN SPAA we were having…
In the past few months I don’t think I’ve had a single game with high spawn guys. It does have some issues without proxy, but considering I grinded it out back when it had full AP, it wasn’t the end of the world. But the proxy is amazing and makes it very capable, and an efficient SPAAG. I can routinely get 3-4 air kills (if that many planes/Helis spawn) in a match.