Timestamped meme-delivered advice for OP and all “why is my nation so bad and weak players.”
“To understand the force, one must study all its aspects… Not just the dogmatic view of the jedi.”
Ergo.
Propeller planes. Most are rank 3.
Most 4.0 aircraft can be reached in ~6 hours of ABR gameplay on a weekend.
Do it. Unlock a 4.0 (or closest since some 4.0 are 3.7 or 5.0 in other modes and vice versa) in USSR/ITA/GER/GB/JAP/USA
Once unlocked and spaded, fly that 4.0 (or closests) fighter from each of the WW2 relevant domestic producers for 1 week and only that plane.
You might discover a few things like…
“Why can’t I out-turn a hellcat?! Hellcat OP!” turning into “Oh, hellcat has zero acceleration of note and becomes unusable at slow speeds. What if I didn’t bring it into a descending spiral to give it infinite speed to keep burning for turns? What if instead I forced it to climb with me without realizing it’s climbing forcing it to either disengage or die?”
every 4.3 german aircraft besides like 2 have a top speed no more then 650kmh while almost every american aircraft has a top speed of 650-720kmh and have like 4x better acceleration then german aircraft
I understand that each nation has its strengths and weaknesses, but bro you cannot deny that german aircraft are just overnerfed. their cannons shoot literal Styrofoam bullets, they have the acceleration of a brick, the turning capabilities of a bathtub with wings, and the top speed of a chicken with no legs
to add onto this, i unloaded about 50-100 20mm rounds into a spitfire, he flew off literally unharmed, out turned me and literally gave me backshots with their 20mms
adding onto this again, 5 hours ago i did a boom n zoom with the FW-190 D9 on an IL-8, most shots landed and he flew off with no issue, i had to go in for a second run to take him out
Bf109F4 is a plane I know i can comfortably take into 3.0-4.0 and 4.0-5.0 lobbies and not feel outmatched on performance, only skill.
Bf109G14 has been quite a bit of fun to fly as well.
Are you trying to turn flat at low speeds?
For literal styrofoam bullets: if that’s the case why did I get a one second burst kill on a mustang where I actually landed my hit where it matters (fuel tank)? In my experience “stryofoam bullets” happen if you play on high ping and you miss your shots and only land your machinegun bullets but don’t realize due to desync, or if you shoot something without anything to actually damage (shooting P-47 in between wing spars rather than fuel tank or engine).
For turns like a boat: Are you using your rudder to help your rolls? Are you monkeypulling in a flat circle? Have you heard of the tactical egg and yoyos and pitchbacks?
For speed: You’re a jack of all-trades. American planes are faster than you, but spitfires and zeros are pitifully slow. Italian planes are about on par. Yaks are faster.
idk what type of spits your fighting but i get out-ran by them all the time
thats luck, i did the same thing MULTIPLE times and it literally did no damage. Not just P-51s i mean like almost every plane i fight i need to do multiple runs to get them. I have no issues with this when i fly the german IL-2 and the german yak1b, i 1 burst everything no issue.
My ping is below 50 at all times and my PL never jumps, and the FW 190 D9 doesnt have mgs, just a 13mm and a 20mm. And i see most of my shots hit their wing and fuselage. No fire no wing rips they just fly like normal. AND i checked the ammo type, air targets on all so its not like im using AP
Both of you got good low-speed acceleration, but your plane is less draggy (bf109s).
You out-speed pre-griffon spitfires.
Fw190 I don’t fly, so cannot comment. Bf109 remains landing hits actually where you want them to and keeping the burst down long enough to cycle through you belt (my usual mistake - single shot bursts can get unlucky and be IT or AP) or only half your shots hit and you aimed to only land the tracer while the rest fell short or went wide (stock guns have massive spread).
On FW190, it is worth noting that its IRL performance can be owed to 2 things warthunder does not model:
Real life pilots could not do constant 7-9G turns without consequence, they’d get tired and exhausted. In Warthunder, an ace crew plane can sit at 6G forever without ever passing out without a G-suit, stopped only by the ground hitting them in a prop.
Real life pilots could not monkeypull the stick at full power at all circumstances. High speeds made it require exponentially more force to pull. High Gs made exerting muscle power much, much harder.
Why is this important?
Catwerfer’s diagram, done with instructor so the Bf109F4’s turn performance is hindered by the instructor’s inability to use rudder and limits on AoA.
Look at the G force curve.
At 5G, Bf109 has a 25 degree turn rate at 400 km/h. A Spitfire can manage an instantenous moneypull for 8Gs to hit 35 degree turn rate at 400 km/h.
Ask yourself - In real life, how many times can a pilot pull a 7G turn in a sortie without a G-suit in a early/mid-war aircraft? Far less than in Warthunder where you can do it all the time with an ace crew and with only a bit of turn circle extension/lag/negative G, you can reset your stamina as if nothing happened.
Now, notable though is that the spitfire is burning energy like crazy at that speed
They’re burning 50 m/s specific excess power to maintain the 35 deg/s 7G turn and have a 23 m/s SEP while unloaded.
Contrasted with Bf109F4
Bf109F4 is only pulling 5Gs at 400 km/h for 25 degrees/second. Still very painful in real life, especially in the tiny and cramped cockpit of a Bf109 and you can’t get good leverage on the stick either. You’re also spending only 10 meter/second on SEP and have a 24.2 m/s SEP generation.
What this means is that in a 400 km/h turn, you can bleed a spitfire of its energy rapidly to either give up altitude and speed and lose its instantenous turn, and then force it into an energy-generation competition by then bringing the fight into a slight ascending spiral where it stalls out.
Now.
Bf109 has bad cockpit ergonomics for pulling hard and its control surface design and traction isn’t optimized for high speed turns either.
What about the Fw190?
Fw190 was made to counter the issues with the Bf109 locking up and being difficult to control at high speeds.
Your turn rate is worse in warthunder, no doubt about it. But think of the IRL reputation. 400, 500 km/h. Spitfire mk V struggles with control lock-up because it’s interwar/early war design, it’s not producing those 7Gs nor can the pilot sustain it without serious pain and fatigue.
Do you see why the IRL reputation and in-game characteristics of the Fw190 are so different?
Compare the 5G line at 400 km/h across all 3 planes.
Compare the 5G line at 500 km/h across all 3 planes.
What do you discover? If you cannot exceed 5G, Fw190 at 500 km/h is 20 deg/s. If you cannot exceed 5G, bf109 is 20 deg/s. Spitfire V? You guessed it. 20 deg/s.
The nimble and maneuverable Fw190 loses in warthunder because pilots can pull insane G forces constantly when you pay to win an ace crew or played long enough to get it AND the cockpit ergonomics (how much room there is to pull on the stick, how long the stick is for lever action, whether we’re using rope, metal or cloth as traction cables) don’t matter. It also doesn’t matter that at high-Gs, some planes had their tailplanes deform under the loading at high Gs.
It’s not a targetted nerf to the Fw190 either.
Hellcats and Mustangs suffer from the same issue. They were also optimized to counter the issues faced by earlier aircraft (controls stiffening and locking up, ergonomics making controlling the stick harder at high Gs. P-38s even had dive recovery flaps added). Zeros were not.
IRL, you could beat a zero by abusing this difference in ruggedness (control lock-up). In WT, you cannot.
No, the diagrams were produced in-engine in test-flight by Catwerfer using WTRTI.
The bit about control stiffening IS informed by my own readings about WW2 aircraft though. This is inspired by hatred of the implementation of crew skills as they are, because as they are they produce unrealistic flight performances and dilute the advantages of more modern world war designs by allowing for superhuman G forces without consequence.
You can, with an expert crew, slam a Mustang Mk Ia into the ground at 800 km/h, pull back on the stick and go into a max performance turn at ELEVEN (11Gs) and only pass out after like 7 seconds and then recover in 3.
I kindly ask you to stop spreading such things. Having limited know-how (= polite for no clue) about certain things is nothing to be ashamed of - but your post is actually wrong in all aspects.
The 190 was developed to have a fighter with a radial engine as the demand for the DB 600 inline engine series was too high.
There was no adaptation to not intended roles.
There was not “fell behind quickly”.
Spitfires Mk Vs were clapped at will until the first few Mk VIII & IX came up.
The sole “technical advantage” of non-German prop fighters was the access to unlimited high octane fuel produced by the US and invented by a French guy.
No idea what “doctrinal issues” you are referring to.
Some other things i noticed:
There is no Torpedo bomber Dora.
The Fw 190 A-5/U-14 is a German premium plane and is classified as torpedobomber - but it never had an airspawn.
You replied to a guy which was clearly referencing to the USSR premium D-9 which was bought because 20 mm ShVaks sucked (like irl) in the game those days - and USSR planes had always severe rip speed issues.
Not knowing about open or hidden nerfs does not mean that they don’t exist. In case you want to get actual knowledge - use the search function in the old and new forum.
Fiddling with BRs because masses of untalented or inexperienced players drag their BRs low is a phenomenon which applies to all nations - except Germany. It boils down that the BRs of 109s / 190s are stable (downtier of D-9-13 from 5.3 to 5.0 and a 0.3/0.4 reduction of a some Antons) whilst their flight models and armament got nerfed. But at the same time mainly US / USSR planes went down and saw huge buffs like the ShVak buff with ballistics and Real Shatter 3.0.
To make this clear: I am not a German fan boy and never liked 109s due to their low rip speed and engine (overheating) nerfs - the G-10 was years ago the only 109 which could climb ~ 5 minutes with WEP without cooking their engines.
At least the 190 A-2 - A-4 aircraft were actually (irl) more agile that Spits Mk Vs. Their sole advantage vs 190s was a tighter turning circle.
A Spitfire has at least up to 4.7 (Air RB) always a worse energy retention at higher alt and is slow as f - that’s the reason why Spits and A6Ms have to be flown with rat tactics.
So there is no “denial” by the Spit - they have to wait for opportunities or outclimb their enemies as otherwise everyone is able to extend.
This looks a bit strange. I fly every few days my SM 92 with 3 x 20 mm MG 151s and have zero problems with getting kills if i hit my target.
The ballistic nerf and the SD (self-destruction of mine shells) nerf / bug require simply just to get closer than years before.
