Why are some MBTs better than others based on gueswork?

Can someone explain to me this one:

The Merkarva, Leclerc and Ariete are curently in a horrible state.
Besides the lack of Lineups for the last two, all of them lack in the armour department for their respective BR. They lack advatages that they can push.
Especially the Ariete with reliable armor would make Italy top Tier viable again.
Meanwhile France and Israel have several lineups consisting of only MBTs on 11.7 of wich all have no reliable armour.

Especially in comparison to the top three Nations it makes no sence to me.
All of them get to have lineups, reliable Armour, some of the best Darts in the game and so much more.

Why would Gaijin not make some of those MBTs more pobular by fixing their armour based on the same gueswork, that artifically nerfs the FIM or Leo 2a4 composite armour acording to some sources ?
In Case of the Ariete, italy on top tier would be esentially fixed for the most part.
France and Israel would still lack some penetration values and lineups on 11.7 but they still would be way more popular than they are now and it would resolve some br compression issues here aswell.

In my eyes this one would push profits for Gaijin aswell by making every nation a little bit more equal here.
So why do they not do this here ?
Most sources are not reliable in this area anyways right ?

Am i missing something here ?


Because Gaijin is inherently biased towards Russia and against NATO vehicles.

Furthermore, they base their decision on how a vehicle perform statistically.
That means that if a nation’s playerbase is on average better than another nation’s playerbase, even though the vehicles of the former are objectively worse at the same BR (Leclerc / Ariete / Merkava VS Leopard 2s / T-80BVM / M1A2 SepV2 Abrams), they still won’t buff the objectively worse vehicles.
They don’t even look at the vehicles in-game : they only look the statistics as if it is some kind of absolute truth about how a vehicle performs.

The result is that popular nations get their vehicles buffed more and mored (since the worst players keep playing those nations) while “minor” nations keep getting nerfed or raised in BR even though vehicles are already objectively worse than their competition … because only the best players can afford to play these nations.

A good example of that is the Char 25T : it used to be 7.7, but since on average France’s playerbase is the best at the game, that inflated the performances of the Char 25T. In consequence, Gaijin upBRed it to 8.0 where now it has to face vehicles with thermals and/or stabs, that are faster, sometimes so armored a Char 25T cannot penetrate it unless it’s from the side or the back.

This method of balancing is extremely bad, because it rewards bad players for being bad at the game, and punishes good player for being better at the game. It also indirectly discourage people from learning.

That is all


Leclerc and Ariete have strong lineups, so not sure why you commented on them.
Ariete weighs 54 tons, it physically cannot have too much armor. Though it may have more than it’s represented as having.

In what world are Sweden and Germany “Russia” and not NATO?
Just cause NATO has the best tanks in War Thunder doesn’t make NATO Russia and not NATO.
T-80BVM is weaker than all M1A2s, as it should be.

You say all this but the current best lineups with the highest winrates are Sweden and Germany.
With the best tank in the game for the last 3 years being the Swedish Strv122.

And Abrams being the best modern MBT on release, as it was contesting with the T-64A (which is now 9.0 while the Abrams is 10.3, for good reason). Russian tanks in-game are slower on average, with impossibly worse gun handling and no reverse gears. Their early APFSDS also has horrible angle performance, while American players whine about M774 and M735 with incredibly good angle performance in relation.

I personally took the liberty of looking at your account and noticed that you basically only play the French LeClercs. Don’t you think it’s a bit disgusting that you’re talking about other nations when you only play 1 nation?

I’m almost certain that if you were to actually play through the Russian tree, you’d be singing a different tune. Or if you were somehow still talking about an inherent “bias” - your stats would still be better in your LeClerc than in T-Series tanks.

Having 4 Leclercs, some good CAS and one ito as Options for a lineup is not much in terms of diversity.
It lacks light tanks just like Israel entirely and thusly only offers MBTs as an efficient offensive Option.
Italy meanwhile already has three acceptable alternatives being the Freccia, Centauro MGS and the KF 41 even if the KF is somewhat lacking in performance rn.

And I commented on the Ariete because it is lacking in performance when compared to its competition. The br of 11.3 is not helping it effectively

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But overall that should cost Gaijin immensely by making other nations unattractive to most players.

Why even bother playing Italy when you already have the best lineups with the US, Germany or Soviets.
It is just frustrating for most players propably and it is one big negative of the game that could easily be fixed.

China only has three 11.7 MBTs for their Top Tier as well and they are the easiest to destroy MBTs in the whole Game, don’t have their correct Stats either and aside from their looks also overall worse in everything than their NATO Counterparts which all have a larger / better Line Up available and yet still manage to have among the highest Winrate and i never see anyone talk about those.

I do not have those top tier chinese MBTs so I did not want to comment on them.
But when I reached the 8.0 lineup for china I took one look at the top ztz at the time, compared it to the T 80s… after that I never touched china again and now I have a T 80 BVM.
They seem to have a larger lfp than the russian counterparts and there is not much to compensate that disadvantage.
At least on paper.
I still haven’t touched them but your criticism sounds plausible

LMAO, GAIJIN has been producing Chinese vehicles according to the standards of (China<Russia)+(copy and paste), and you will find a similar phenomenon in any update

It’s not diversity, but it is strong.
7 vehicles total.
Lacking light tanks is just a norm for tech trees sadly. Germany technically lacks one cause TAM 2C’s DM63 isn’t that great.

Arietes are in a tough space for sure. Glass cannons, 3 of them.

I think what you should change is forming your desire to be diversity.

STRV122 and Leopard 2A7 should be sent to 12.7, and T80BVM should be sent to 12.3

when the Leopard 2A7V is given it’s correct armour values

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Yes, fix Leopard 2A7 and move it along with 122 to 12.7,And BVM

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The Topic is about Israel,Italy and France…
*and guesing based on unreliable sources

Diversitiy is also what makes a lineup strong.
MBTs are good.
But a small light tank might be advatageous on some maps
Or an IFV
It is not like France does not have any options here.

I could change it, but the point is that they could buff those top tier MBTs in theory and they do not do that.

That is kinda the point of the post…
It is inofficially somewhat well known that Gaijin balances on gueswork.
It would only be nice if everyone could be competitive this way…

First and foremost, that’s not my only account, look at my other account Saito18. Then you can stop talking since seeing YOUR account you barely have a thousand of combined battles in top tier and you only reached top tier with China. Oh the hypocrisy lmao.

Yeah that’s basically what I’m saying. So basically you saw me writing the Devs are biased toward Russia and you immediately stopped reading from there and jumped on your keyboard to tell me how much Russia suffers. Gotcha.

did not notice that this one was not directed at me lol.
But people can still talk about whatever they want. You will encounter every Tank at some point

Oh yeah, sure.
You mean France’s lineup, comprised of 4 equally bad Leclercs and an SPAA ?
Or maybe Italy’s lineup, comprised of 4 equally bad Arietes, a decent Light Tank but no competitive SPAA ?
I just can’t wait hearing what is your definition of a bad line-up in top tier then lol.

In what world ? Well, our world. Sweden is not part of NATO.
And T-80BVM is definitely not weaker than M1A2s, I don’t know what you’re on about lol.
M1A2s can only dream of the armor level of the T-80BVM.