Why add bmpt but still no m829a3 for U.S. 120 mm tanks to help combat new vehicle?

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
30

Rather than asking for a new round, which let’s face it the game engine more than likely can’t even support anti-era tips, it would make more sense for gaijin to actually get off their arses and fix how era currently works.

Era is a flat penetration reduction in game, with no accounting for angles or anything. This means that it doesn’t matter if you hit it directly at the side, or more from the front or back, the kinetic penetration reduction is the same. Therefore, a round has to go through the era, then the side armour, then the spall liner. It’s no wonder the sides of later Russian tanks eat shells.

So the actual fix is for gaijin to actually do some work and fix that, anything else is a band aid on a sucking chest wound.

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31

Patent of a ERA, similar in apearence to “Relict”, doesnt mean, they ware able to defeat Relict in 2000

data from laboratories ≠ real-world data

Nobody, but you talk about “Russian superiority” and “eating propaganda”, at anyone that disagree with your assumptions. And No, I don’t accept claims without prove (not that it matter in the grand scheme of things, I’m not dev after all). End of story.

33

Walks into the Russian bias topic
→ sees complaint only offers the solution to the US exclusively, buff them.

→ instantly get confused

→ Eventually get railed between Russians and Americans if buff drops.

7 Likes
34

Do you use kh-38MT? yes or no? if no do you support it’s addition? yes or no?

Gues what boi half of russkies tech in this game acts like what you said.

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36

Where is the connection?

Care to elaborate?

37

Yes. Brochure proof of kh-38mt doing what it does… they take it for granted…

Now even from only a “brochure” some usa tech won’t be added by devs like stryker reload speed… or long awaited FnF brimmstones (because it would be OP or in other cases it does not work that way end of bug report bam*) But when it comes to russian stuff in this game they get what the manufacterer states … flight path of russian fnf missiles compare that to helfires/spikes…

You could add and add more are more and only a blatant fanboy would not acknowledge it

  • russian eras eating darts/atgms
  • russian autoloader eating darts instead of exploading
  • pantsir-s1 (+ now pantsir 2, even more op)
  • KH-38MT vs maverics
  • object 279, is 7, pe-8, yak 9k, that soviet ship which doesn’t even exist irl

Read this post here you will have a lot of it listed.

2 Likes
38

Brochure + IRL use in one of the ongoing conflicts that shall not be named…

all reaload speed are redused/increased for balance reasons…

I don’t thing there is a person that is against IR FnF brimmstones (with up to max 6 in a loadout), but for the mmw, not going to happen soon, because it will be broken. And do consider the fact that other nations beside NATO also have mmw ATGMs… this will open the flud gates for a lot of BS… we dont wont that.

Nobody is against fixing the helfires/Spikes flight path… I would also and PARS in the mix.

only darts and only on the BMP-T… yeah its only a problem for 10.3-11.3 shells.

questioble… In all my experienc with USA and Germany in high tier agains T-seriers with aoutloader (or Chinise ones, because they’re the same in WT) I’ve never experience such problem.

yeah Kh is better… so is HAMMER, and AGM-84H… wow a newer, bigger missile is better then an older, smaller, what a shocker…

Again… what all of this has to do with the M829A3 beeing able to defeat Relict+armor (btw even the US Army or the manufacturer doesnt claim that) and the lack of evidence for those capabilities???

39

Why? Because your Kontakt tanks would be plastic and useless?

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40

I have no real horse in the M829A3 race, but this is some borderline braindead stuff. If anything a lot of the time data from laboratories is more reliable. The lab, and especially patents, have standards for the quality (although they aren’t always followe) while real life data can just be cherry picked.

And laboratory/test data is exactly how things get designed and made.

For example we can also just take that picture of the turretless BVM with a hole in it’s Relikt brick and consider that “data” to get relikt nerfed.

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41

IMG_2569
IMG_25691164×1007 182 KB

42

The problem is that there are no “laboratory/test data” of M829A3 vs Relict… the only one providing a source (here on the forum) was I think @tripod2008 and in it i was sayed, if I remember correctly “defeat 3th gen ERA”… but there ware no explanation what “3th gen ERA” means or what count as a “3th gen”, or what was used for testing.

By they’re definition, this is also a “laboratory/test data” …

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6vtGR8opPs

but for me (regardless that in some way prove my point) I don’t accept it beouce it a huge guesswork.

43

Why would we need M829A3 when other 8 nations probably not gonna have it?

I really wonder why Americans needs to have the privilege to counter Russian vehicles exclusively.

Yes, russian bias meta are ass, but we need better solution than ‘gib 829a3’

1 Like
44

Not with that seeker.

funny how bmpt is balanced or other stuff vs non russian and how they quickly balance out western eq vs russian :)

who said anything about mmw? Why not do it like kh-38mt with it’s seeker which how it works and is interchangable STATED BY A “BROCHURE” info while others don’t get that privilege No real data about it what so ever but still they take the word fro granted which already means gaijin favors russians.

then why not do it for X years since they came out and russian get it while them don’t? What is the problem? specially after multiple reports?

Very bad aargument “i don’t have it so i denounce it” type…
while multiple more people claim they do so the balace of it is on the side of it is happening instead of not.

where is the balance then? have best spaa now have best ag missile while usa gets badly implemented Slammers …

evidence? look up you have a brochure etc but that only applies to russkies xDDDDD

you sound just like Alvis…

I wonder why hmmm oh yes i’ve got it you are a big russian main :)

45

Dude, you’re trying to equate an amateur simulation video made by private individuals with guesswork numbers to the Army laboratory doing controlled testing and writing black on white the precise technical requirements needed for APFSDS to defeat Relikt-type ERA.

Are you trolling? What even…

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46

Not anyone say F5C should not delete ALE40
But many Russia bias enjoyer in defense of KH38

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47

There is, but it’s likely still classified.

Which is why both hard conclusions are foolish. There is simply not enough unclassified information to make any such conclusion.

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48

Other Nations like Germany have equivalents like DM63 / DM73…DM53 is already nerfed in-Game, Chinas DTC10-125 is also stronger IRL and 99B apparently has a new stronger Cannnon so they could add that. No idea about what UK/France or so have but i think they just use German Ammo too nowadays

49

My point form the start. Maybe I didn’t explained good.

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50

Did you even read what i wrote or just qoted every paragraph and copy-pasted the samo old “mucH rusSian bias” bulletpoints?

51

It is made to pen ERA, many get this wrong as they think the m829a3 gets way more penetration like upwards of 750-900mm but that is wrong.
The m829a3 actually (if estimated correctly) gets very small benefits when it comes to penetrating power compared to the m829a2, However the M829A3 is equipped with a solid steel tip (~100–152 mm long, with a engineered weak joint) which sacrifices itself against ERA so the rest of the sabot/penetrator can go cleanly through the armour.
The m829a2 was built on the emphasis of “raw power” while the m829a3 takes on armour in a more elegant way/smart way

Kinetic Energy comparison:
image

IMG_6739
IMG_67391179×389 42.9 KB

→ Almost identical total energy. The extra 1 kg mass in the A3 perfectly offsets the ~120 m/s lower velocity.

Bending Stiffness (the real anti-ERA advantage):
image

• A2 diameter ≈ 22 mm
• A3 diameter = 25 mm
• Ratio: (25/22)^4 \approx 1.67 → +67% bending stiffness
This is why the steel tip works: it detonates the ERA plates early, the weak joint shears it off, and the thicker main DU rod resists guillotining/bending far better than a monoblock rod.

Proof It Was Designed to Penetrate Relikt-Level ERA

Wikipedia (sourced from U.S. Army/ATK data):

“The M829A3 is a further improvement, designed to defeat any future armor protection methods like the newer Kaktus type, which was fitted on prototype tanks such as the Black Eagle tank, later developed into Relikt (ERA).”

The steel tip detonates the ERA early; the main DU rod finishes the job. Diameter increase gives 67% more resistance to bursting plates.

Below The Turret Ring / ATK patents:

“Such a penetrator design has a big benefit against targets protected by heavy ERA, which is what the main target of the M829A3 development was.” → +20–30% effective penetration vs heavy ERA arrays (Kontakt-5 or follow-on like Relikt).

Real-world mechanism (confirmed in every patent and analysis):

The tip acts like a mini-tandem charge against ERA. It triggers the explosive before the main rod arrives, so Relikt’s flyer plates only hit the sacrificial steel instead of deforming the sharp DU point. Without the tip, the A2 loses 20–30% penetration from tip blunting/guillotining. With the tip + thicker rod, the A3 retains far more residual performance.

A picture so it’s easier to visualize the steel tip against era
IMG_6735
And link to that video https://youtu.be/QKHhrZQHs2E?is=SMGilAUJrWV68A2h