If they base the EF flight model off the relative performance in comparison to Gripen and Mirage 4000 then its going to be something like a spitfire mk.9 vs a BF109 K4. Both will turn tighter at lower speeds but the EF will have a high speed and thrust advantage.
Still the EF will outdogfight pretty much all 4th gens. (There are some exceptions of course).
Public sources suggest it should be roughly equal to the F-14B in sustained turn rate (~23 deg/s) and have superior instantaneous turn (30 deg/s). Likely a much tighter turn radius and whatnot as well as better specific excess power…
But it will not be significantly superior to the Rafale, J-10C, Super Hornet, Su-30/35, MiG-29M, etc.
The Gripen significantly exceeds those numbers on full fuel currently at 30 deg/s sustained at higher speeds with instant turn rate in excess of 40 deg/s. It’s absurd.
What
how
All of the mentioned aircraft have superior maneuverability to the Eurofighter in regards to one circle performance which will matter a lot against advanced HOBS missiles and are not significantly inferior in sustained turn rate thanks to the Eurofighters rather highly swept wings (50+ degrees) and lack of close coupled canard.
The use of TVC on some of them further advantages them against the Eurofighter. The flight performance just shouldn’t be the concern… the armament should be.
The Eurofighter has nasty armament as well though
Yes i’ve seen the figure range between 23 and 26, but IIRC that’s better than any F-16 above block 50? Still it will enjoy having the advantage in the vertical with anything but an F-15 and there it will have the advantage in everything else.
No but these are also the peak of 4th generation fighters.
Yes the Gripens FM is overperforming but proportionally the Eurofighter does everything better than the Gripen bar instantaneous turn and thats by 0.3 of a degree per second. So if the Eurofighter which is used by more nations in-game is added with that same margin its probably going to be the best.
If you want to go vertical against the supermaneuverable fighters you’ll eat an R-73 / Magic 2 / MICA / ASRAAM / IRIS-T / AIM-9X / Python 4, 5 / etc… etc…
The F-16’s just get heavier from here, they will have worse and worse flight performance.
Not entirely, there are a lot of other things I omitted from the comparison since it’s about flight performance… these fighters are better in nose authority than the Eurofighter.
That’s why we’re working to correct the performance of the Gripen rn, no biggie.
That’s what I said.
The same can be said about low speed rate fighting without high thrust such as on the Rafale and F-18?
Im confused other than the Boramae those are all 4.5th generation fighters there are no better ones.
Eurofighter does not have twin tails as the others bar rafale and J-10C but equally the EF is significantly better than the J-10. However the delta still makes up for that with the canards although it will be lesser than that of the Rafale, at low speeds yes it will suffer more however there’s next to no reason for the EF to be at low speed with the second highest thrust to weight ratio of any 4th gen.
In addition using the publicly available data on the AMK kit it should then retake the advantage and exceed significantly, then there’s the option of thrust vectoring which also improves that and can be simultaneously installed on the same airframe.
Not at supersonic and high subsonic speeds, that is the purpose of long-arm canards. At low speeds below 400-450kts of course the Rafale will perform better in a horizontal plane but at high speeds the long arms improve turn performance proportionally to speed.
It will definitely be better than the J-10, Mig-29. It will likely be superior to the SU-27 family as it was designed to combat them, it has a higher thrust to weight and should rate better, furthermore, if they use thrust vectoring they will lose all their airspeed.
Rafale it will depend on Tranche, Airspeed and most importantly, whether it receives the AMK and TV or not. Thrust vectoring naturally bleeds a lot of speed but the EF has more than enough thrust to make up for that.
As we are talking about the game though, we will just have to see how its implemented.
Based on what we’ve seen so far, I think it will do very well as the Thrust of the M4K seems to be winning against the close coupling of the Gripen, I suspect in that analogy the EF will replace the M4K and the Rafale will replace the Gripen.
I don’t think that this will be a concern, if it has devolved to a rate fight on the deck you’re both in serious trouble outside of a direct 1v1. The HOBS missiles they will be equipped with will be equally lethal to either side. I’ve already seen two Su-27’s do this and kill each other multiple times.
There may not directly be “better ones” but they certainly have their pros and cons… to include the J-15, J-16, F-15EX, F-16V, JF-17, Tejas, I could probably go on about subvariants.
The point is, the Eurofighter is no pinnacle of aviation. It has pros and cons, the flight performance is not significantly better than what is currently in the game or above its’ peers such as the Rafale or other listed jets.
The J-10 isn’t going to be much worse than the Eurofighter. Y’all are significantly overhyping the capabilities of the Eurofighter. The Eurofighter will be forced to low speed if he doesn’t want to die to a HOBS missile. Any time you allow a merge in war thunder with these types of missiles the opponent can essentially stick to the “MAD” program… mutually assured destruction.
What I mean by this is that in the future when someone merges with you… your only option is to jam the WEZ of this HOBS missile. You’ll be forced to get slow in a 16v16 match and then you’re vulnerable to third parties. There are no other options. BVR will be more important than ever.
Is there any in service with all of these modifications? I’m talking about the baseline Eurofighter performance being on par with what is currently in the game. It could be added already in the same fashion as the Gripen.
Again, maintaining high speed is not going to be as beneficial as maintaining a high turn rate at lower speeds. See the F-14B vs Mirage 2000 fight…
I don’t see how.
That’s just fine because they can regain it after they’ve killed you with a HOBS missile.
No, it won’t. It just beats the Eurofighter WVR all day long.
My entire point is that an early Eurofighter could be in the game right now. It’s clear Gaijin is of the belief these eurocanards have much better performance than they really do and we’re gonna fix that. It’s not a biggie. Hopefully we see the Eurofighter soon.
There isn’t a fighter in the game that can come close to competing with the Gripen right now… 30+ deg/s instant turn rate and 25 deg/s sustained turns at as low as 0.4 mach…
It doesn’t, all Standards have the same flight performance, it will only be different between the Airframes (B, C and M).
Idk what you mean with AMK but the TV and IRST have always been a thing on the Rafale, only exceptions being LF.1 and early F.3s, though I have no doubt Gaijin might start with F.2.2 or even F.3.2.
I agree.
I agree its not a pinnacle of aviation, however as a package, its pretty close if not the pinnacle of 4th generation fighters. You could debate which that is, but what is certain is that its pretty damn close.
Much higher T/W, much better canard arrangement simply because the J-10’s are too high to provide full effectiveness over the wing, IRST without laser ranging, there are more points, I can understand that you thing its overhyped, but selling it as short as a J-10 is literally just insulting.
BVR will be important though.
Not in service, but there are no F-16’s in service with 7M’s, and there is a list of further aircraft utilising out of service modifications such as the Germans with the R27ER.
I disagree if you aren’t going to bleed down to ‘low speed’ in less than 2 circles.
Better radar, better flight performance, more hardpoints, better IRST, better thrust to weight, better sustained etcetera. Come on, I know you’ve seen the sources, you can compare it to F-18’s, Rafale’s, Flankers etc thats fine, but come on.
The EF can do the exact same but the PoK is a lot better on higher speeds, plus there’s the case of positioning as its 90 degrees off boresight.
No? What no?. Acquisition with the PESA yes, but it has 1-way datalink, worse than the EF’s 2 way, the M-scan is reportedly better at longer range than the PESA as it still makes more power, and its larger. But sure, say the PESA is just better, then Tranche 1A or Tranche 3 comes around, you have a better AESA array with more transmitter/receivers, more power, 40% larger and its gimbal mounted so you can notch or even fly away and track and update datalink simultaneously whilst the Rafale is going to be launching the same missile, but unable to update its seeker without flying towards you.
EF is undoubtedly better when you compare AESA vs AESA and arguably better at long range comparing M-Scan vs PESA.
We will have to agree to disagree, if you think the Eurofighter is that much better than the modern J-10’s you’ll just have to feel insulted.
I’m referencing the Eurofighter. As in Eurofighter Tranches all dogfight more or less the same however Tranches 3 and 4 have AESA radars vs the M-scan. Rafale does not have options for thrust vectoring and the IRST is not only worse according to public data but also uses a laser rangefinder for ranging and to provide guidance which will alert Missile approach warning systems.
AMK kit is a kit which improves all Eurofighter flight performance metrics by 25-50% which using publically available data from the Indian and Swiss trials will put it ahead of the Rafale in a dogfight and thats not my opinion, thats public data.
Fair enough, either way as you usually bring sources I hope your bug reports go well.
Eurofighter may very well be coming in the next 6mo, I think as Gaijin move towards having AMRAAM in the game they will add fighters that are better suited to carrying it. Rafale and Eurofighter may be closer than you imagine.
Until then, expand your horizons and grind other tech trees!
I refuse to grind Britain still, suppose I will be using the German model.
F-15C MSIP II+, Rafale, Typhoon, Su-3X…; End of 2024 at the earliest is my estimation.
Don’t blame you, props are great, some of the jets (most) are either overtiered or objectively bad when it comes to the game, however it is not made better by the fact that Britain is missing a number of notable airframes which were good (Gnat, CL-13 MK.4, Superswift).
The Italian model will be the best as it will have the best radar plus the IRIS-T, the British one will have the same radar but ASRAAM (which I suspect will be worse however), unless it gets P3I, its going to be worse after the merge, the German one will get a worse radar, but IRIS-T.
Germany is the much better option, which is why I grinded out Germany first.