America’s 12.7 doesn’t even have 11.7 armor.
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it has great turret armor, but what else? its easily breechable like anything else, it has a massive 360 degree weakspot which has 50mm of armor, and it has terrible hull protection, this whilst having no spall liner and a massive turret ring that is essentially a guarantee disable when you penetrate the abrams.
the original 10.7 abrams is imho utterly unfun to play, it feels like a light tank without the trolly air armor. i had instantly a ton more fun with the 120mm abramses.
sepv2 here
t90m here
i didnt even pick the spot with the highest pen it goes as high as 900+ mm of effectiveness
t80bvm here
strv 122b+ here
i dunno man the turret armor seems average, all of them also have the breech weakspot.
Ok so look at this photo. gaijin can make the lower plate the turret cheeks 1000MM of effective armor vs kinetic and chemical rounds
do you see everything in the blue area? well that gets penned by heatfs, yeah the most basic heatfs from 8.0 pens and kills the abram, whats even more unforgiven is that where top plate connects to the bottom plate gets penned by every cannon in the game
all of this still dont even matter, what im getting at is this, the Abrams become worse the higher they become, the little bit of armor boost and shell pen that literary doesn’t even matter because you cant even pen the upper plate of T80 let alone T90 with the top shell of SEP V2 (unless u aim for the driver view port but as we established the first apfsds of M1 Abrams does the same thing), there is nothing to look forward to other than v3 of thermals that works the same way as thermal v1 because every map you play is 1km wide 2km tall lol, the m1 thermal is far better because the russians dont have thermals and you can abuse the engine smoke and kill them.
The Russian players who start at the T64 can look forward to thermals/spall liner/reverse speed, upper plate so strong that can survive any shell coming towards it if they dont aim properly.
Germany/Sweden/UK/Israel/China all can see a benefit in their higher br vehicle, while USA/France/Italy/Japan all have the same problem, the original Leclerc and Leclerc is pretty much the same vehicle, type 90 to type 10 is even worse imo (type 90 shouldn’t be 11.7 if we are being honest weebs are just too good at the game and artificially increase the br of that thing) and do I need to say anything about the Ariete?
this isnt about oh this is weak, no thats strong, no its over performing, no its under performing. this entire post is about this, there is no incentive to go from M1 Abrams to M1A2 SEP V2 or anything in between
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LOL
going from -4.2 to -11 doesnt sound great on paper but it works wonders in game play, T-80 series is my favorite in the whole Russian tech tree, going back 2.6 x faster has saved my life in the T80 more times than I can count, its no 62kmh reverse obviously but its still is a massive improvement
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Try going from the T-72/90s to the Type 10.
Keep in mind in the decompression patch gaijin just moved up a bunch of stuff fairly arbitrarily, we will see things go up and down quite a bit in the next few BR changes until it all settles out.
But almost none of the sabots currently in game will go through anyway, beside the object 292?
Once your effective armor reaches certain treshold it doesnt matter if its 732mm protection equivalent against KE or 847mm protection equivalent against KE. Most of the sabots with exception of object 292 will not go through either.
Against 3BM60:
Against DM53 fired from L/55:
and that left cheeck wont pen all the way through anyway, even if fired point blank.
So, the enemy either has to:
A) go for weakspot
B) have HE loaded and topdown attack you through roof
C) relocate and engage from more favorable angle (and this entirely hinges on Abrams letting enemy relocate in the first place and then exposing his turret to this new angle)
None of these issues are unique to the Abrams. Argument could be made it is easier to topdown attack Abrams with HE due to the CROWS etc., but most top tier tanks can be disabled through roof HE.
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If your armor forces the enemy to go for weakspot, armor is working as intended.
And this issue isnt unique to the Abrams.
Are you unironically saying these two perform exactly the same.
Not to mention the added utility 120mm Abrams tanks have in form of proxy fuze HEAT against low flying aerial targets.
improvement is an improvement.
issue not unique to the Abrams.
that being?
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oh god what has the world come to where the soviets have to “checks notes” go for weakspots? on one of the top tier tanks with the easiest weakspots to it as well.
You are just disingenuous huh?
Here is m735 from the 105mm, look at what you can and kill the t90.
Ok now look at the top shell of sepv2, do you see that it makes no difference? Or are you just blind? If the new shell does the same thing as the previous shell does and nothing new, than there is no upgrade.
Yes every vehicle at higher br faces more broken mechanics, except they gain an improvment for that said BR, abrams doesnt.
Surviving direct hits to the turret, m1 abrams is the only abrams in game not getting ammo wrecked from turret hits, being the fastest mbt at 72kmh top speed, having the best realod in its BR, having thermals when 70% enemies fought against they dont have thermal.
You are certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed.
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I may not be sharpest but i still have my edge, yours turned into dust.
When you can’t deny something just insult the other person.
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All the Abrams he played have 3-4 KD. Do you know how good that kill-death ratio is? Meanwhile your Abrams has negative kd, instead of taking notes from a much better player than yourself and acknowledging the vehicle’s strong points, you choose to fixate on the weak point, where it wouldn’t help your situation in any way
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I tend to think the M1A1 is the best Abrams for its BR. Your armor can sometimes work against lower BR opponents and M829A1 is one of the best rounds at 11.3 (until it goes to 11.7 in the coming update). I have an aced crew with it and I have a ~2.5 KDR with it (used to be higher but before the recent BR changes 90% of my matches were full uptiers). It’s my most played tank because I have learned to overcome the weaknesses. You literally have to play it as a like tank with the occasional bit of situational armor. If you start playing any of the Abrams that way you’ll do good.
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I understand english is not your first language, but do you understand that this topic is about how pointless the upgrades are to the abrams? Congratulations man you pulled my stats and his stats, and? How is that relevant to this topic, if you cared to read this topic as much as you cared to pull my stats up, you would see my point stands. Put away the personal attacks and add something to this topic if you cant do that please leave this thread and stop taking us off topic
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Yes, i have actually gone back to M1 abrams and been having a lot of good games lately, regardless im not talking about skill or how the tanks play, im just stating that there is no incentive to grind for the higher abrams, its the same tank sitting at higher br, is this not an accudate statement to you?
What exactly is the point here lol?
Abrams hull sucks, it has massive weakspot in form of turret ring. It still has functional turret armor that can tank all but one sabots in game, which forces the enemy go for the weakspots - something that is extremely common in warthunder.
I simply do not find Abrams as bad as you make it out to be.
and you call me disingenuous lol.
God forbid tank has armor. also T-90M is one tank from one nation, one that cant be seen by 10.7 Abrams anyway now or before decompression.
How about you compare firepower increase between 105mm and 120mm Abrams tanks against other tanks from any of the other 8 nations they could be both met before decompression (and some which they can meet still)?
base M1 Abrams is already a good tank. A2/SEPv1/SEPv2 gets improved turret armor that cannot be penned outside of the weakspots by any sabot bar the object 292 one. On top of that they retain one of the fastest reloads on tanks with loader in game, access to only (as far as i know) proxy-fuze HEAT shell against low flying aerial targets, and whats probably the best ready rack/general ammo rack layout in game, both in terms of placement and capacity. SEPv1/SEPv2 also get access to upgraded thermals. Unlike 2A7 or russian tanks, their protection on turret remains consistent no matter the amount of hits - russian tanks rely on ERA, Leopard wedges can be shot off.
You also get three identically well performing MBTs to field in a single match, only few nations can do that.
Maybe you dont feel the upgrades offered by A2/SEPv1/SEPv2 arent worth it over A1 or even the 105mm Abrams, but they are far from bad.