Indian Soviet stuff on British tree confirms that
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Have you considered adding copy paste vehicles consumes less development resources and that Gaijin is lazy?
No matter what, france should have NEVER gotten the dutch vehicles. They are infinitely closer to germany than france in every way, the Leo 2s France now has afaik were even under German command…
So either move the dutch vehicles to germany or if you don’t want the duplicate leos there then turn them into skins…
None of these should occur INSTEAD of something else.
Benelux wasn’t added instead of anything else, and these shouldn’t be either.
Both of your options are bad, and benelux is a great addition to France. Especially since at least half of it is unique vehicles, and over half unique TO French lineups. Two of the Leopard 2s are unique models to the game.
Similar to how Merkava is a unique CQC option for USA lineups.
If that’s the definition of copy-paste, then copy-paste doesn’t exist in War Thunder.
Most of the development time is in research. Commissioning the model and animations are the other portion.
3D model being a fairly cheap commission. It takes research to confirm that they CAN copy an existing model [Leopard 2A4]. And if that research warrants a new 3D model [2A5NL], then they commission a new model.
@Zahltag
So is your take that Switzerland and Denmark should go to France instead of Benelux? Cause France needs access to F35s somehow.
Switzerland arguably could be moved, not denmark. Your brain seems to have a hard time comprehending that countries usually aren’t arbitrarily assigned to ingame nations
That is only the case for the last 10 or so years.
They were not. The Leopard 2A6 we see in game is the Leo 2A6M2, which was a fully Dutch-owned Leopard 2 variant, with Dutch electronic equipment, sights and external modifications for crew storage.
A Dutch Leopard 2A6M2 NL with smoke grenade launchers in the front and on the sides of the turret
And don’t forget, the single country that the Dutch are closest to are the Belgians, with multiple cooperations, some even starting in 1948, right after WWII.
Currently the Netherlands doesn’t have MBT’s in its inventory, but they are allowed to use the semi-leased tanks from the german 414 batallion with they have a binational cooperation command structure under the NATO structure. These are the Leopard 2A6M3’s (which don’t even get Dutch markings). All other heavy armoured equipment is Dutch owned and under Dutch command.
Other parts of the Dutch armed forces are in cooperation pacts with another nation, namely Belgium:
- Nuclear/Biochemical/Disaster response are a Belgium/Netherlands cooperation. (since 1951)
- 120 mm mortar training for the artillery of both nations has been a cooperation for over 30 years now.
- The Dutch Navy is under the BeNeSam (=Belgium & Netherlands Samenwerking/cooperation) admirality. (same uniforms, same ships for some parts and same training as well for some ships). (since 1948)
- The Dutch Air Force shares the BeNeLux airspace, as both Belgium and The Netherlands share the Defence. (since early 2000s)
- The Dutch special forces and the Belgian ones are now also one task force. (since 2023)
Dutch Army equipment was NOT under command of the German Bundeswehr Please don’t spread this misinformation.
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Then Benelux stays in France.
Without a 2 nation option that gives France as much as Benelux does, it’s just Germany getting 3+ tech trees.
There is only one non copy paste vehicle in the entire sub tree the Fokker G.1A.
If the Leclerc need help at top tier why would you add the Leopard at the same BR wouldn’t it be just as bad? There both 12.0 shouldn’t they be equal? You can’t on the one hand say France isn’t good enough at top tier and needs help and on the other keep the vehicle that isn’t performing at the same BR. Its pretty easy if a vehicle isn’t performing you buff it or move it down in BR, you don’t surround it with “better” vehicles.
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Then your post is portraying you as not playing the game.
Vehicles that have new 3D models AFTER Gaijin spent the time and money researching the vehicles AND determining new models were necessary:
Leopard 2A6NL, Leopard 2A5NL, Gladiator Mk1, F-16AM, F-16A, Mirage 5BA, Meteor F Mk8, CV9035NL are all unique vehicles.
“Play style is the same.”
So Leclerc is copy-paste of Abrams if you ever claim that play style is ever a factor in what makes something copy-paste.
And Leclercs will be fixed at some point.
I’m level 100 I’ve played the game. If you can just reskin a vehicle and add it to a tech tree and call it unique your delusional.
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@Gadfire
An entirely new commission after hours of research on whether a new model commission is needed is the definition of unique in both the money spent and the actions taken.
No need to have a post of gaslighting; yes, accusing people of that is the textbook definition of gaslight.
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I am sorry for anything you take as “gaslighting” its not intend.
In the end it doesn’t matter what research is done or money spent, we are the consumer and we got the exact same product except with a Dutch flag on it. In my mind and many others that is copy-paste.
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remove France from the game entirely
Remove USSR, it’s just a big bait. Now seriously, the copy and paste, in my opinion is the problem, and France didnt need it, yes, it may be people that supported (I’m not their friends, I don’t like them), because I have some doubts someone just wanted three the same Leopard 2, taking Japan as example that at the moment, excluding Israel, is the single Western tech tree that doesn’t have a higher tier filler, and from experience, it’s doing very well without a possible Thailand copy and pasted vehicles.
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yeah, so unique they had to change 2 code lines max and slightly tweak 4 textures
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three bucks and whatever they found in their pockets is all the money the benelux states cost, especially since the fokker model was already a user mission years ago
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the thailand alphajet (the second one) is actually a very unique and distince modification unlike the benelux copy paste stuff. Also the f5 variants are mostly slightly changed or available in a tech tree for the first time.
@Zahltag
It’s clear you never looked at 3D modeling before.
Vehicles can cost minimum $$,$$$ and into the hundred-thousands.
Gran Turismo 5 cost $60,000,000 to produce featuring 243 newly produced models. Over a quarter million per car. Of course there were other things added to the game, and we’ll never know the exact number spent on each car added.
The point is vehicle additions cost more than you think.
None of this is as expensive as creating an AI for a PVE environment though.
BeNeLux sits well in France, and personally I find Belgian AFVs more interesting than Dutch ones. Germany already has enough Leopards, but a Leopard 1A4 would suit quite nice.
Unfortunately sub-trees bring vehicles “because a nation needs it at X BR” instead of “because it’s an interesting addition”. Balance can definitely exist between both but it seems like apart from the Fokker the rest of the vehicles are practically a reskin.
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Well, most are ‘unique’ models with some modifications, or in some cases, fully unique ones. But indeed, for playstyle-wise most are the same as their sister vehicles from which these imported vehicles came from. This is the main reason why so many people say ‘copy-paste’. Personally I have never had a problem with such additions if it enhances a line-up or if they are historically significant additions.
There are a lot of unique vehicles that could still come, like these Belgian low-Br Tanks:
(from back to front):
- T.13 B1
- T.15
- T.13 B3
- T.15
There are also a lot of modern Benelux vehicles that could come, we’ll see where Gaijin takes us.
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