What’s going on with the M1A2 Abrams?

[IHаteCAS]

@Panther2995

First of all you do realize 30MM doesn’t fire single shell in every 5 seconds unlike your Abram’s right? It can put multiple rounds in couple seconds which is more than enough to cripple you if you get caught off guard

In a perfect scenario in which I am point blank and shoot every round into the same comp plate and at a completely flat angle, he still has 2 seconds to react. Not the most amount of time, but this changes drastically with range, angle, etc.

Spoiler

@Panther2995

its the whole reason why I said TUSK becomes viable in this case.

This is a very cheap attempt I must say.

You’re up 3 tons of weight though. To each their own. How is this a cheap attempt though? I’m not manipulating anything, i’m just stating fact.

@Panther2995

By the time those shells were aimed at your critical compartment your hull was already angled more than enough, with or without side skirts you were going to survive anyway.

Refer to video, even in perfect scenario you have a decent amount of time to react. 2 seconds is a lot more than you’d get with an MBT turning you to scrap metal in less than a fraction of that.

I know I am not going to change your mind, so I will leave it at this. Whether or not you take TUSK, HC Spec and SEP Abrams are essentially the same. There are differences, but they do not warrant a BR difference.

[Milashny_Koteyka]

@Константинович7

M1 Abrams is perfoming just normal, the strange factor is why the M1A2T have better numbers than the american one.

It shoots americans, so its only natural xD

[БЕИ]

@CAS is Bаlаnced

M1A1 AIM with KE-W A2 would be 12.7, and so should all other HC variants

I suspect it might perform better than the SEPs because it doesn’t have a landfill zone on top of the turret lol that shit really break stealth

[MotorolaCRO]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

M1A2 and the M1A1HCs already sit at the same BR as AIM, while having M829A2.

AIM has better thermals, so giving it a better round would easily push it to 12.7.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

…how would slightly higher quality thermals make a tank worthy of a higher BR while having the same mobility, same firepower and even ever so slightly worse armor?

It has been established that thermal quality doesn’t have an impact on BRs. Otherwise we wouldn’t have even 9.x vehicles with 2nd and 3rd gen thermals, or Russian MBTs with them as low as 11.0…

[MotorolaCRO]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

…how would slightly higher quality thermals make a tank worthy of a higher BR while having the same mobility, same firepower and even ever so slightly worse armor?

The same way how SEP is at 12.7 already.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

It has been established that thermal quality doesn’t have an impact on BRs.

Do tell me where that has been established.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@MotorolaCRO

The same way how SEP is at 12.7 already.

SPANISH_AVENGER:

Better armor (which base A2 and HCs also already have), CITV.

@MotorolaCRO

Do tell me where that has been established.

The Strv 122s are 12.7 despite having miserable 1st gen thermals. According to your logic, they should be a lower BR than the 2A7s and their 3rd gen thermals alone for that reason…?

We even have the 2A6s sitting at 12.7, with worse armor and also 1st gen thermals.

Then we have stuff like T-72B3 at 11.3 and T-72B3 Arena at 11.0, both with 2nd gen thermals. According to you, if they had 1st gen… they would deserve to be even lower in BR?

I believe the ONLY case in which thermals were deemed enough of a difference to warrant a slightly higher BR is T-80UE-1; and fair enough, as T-80U is already an excellent 11.7 and even better thermals removes one of its only downsides down there.

Regardless… I honestly don’t care which BR a fixed M1A1 AIM would be. I just want it to have its real service and historical shell for it to faithfully depict its real life counterpart… and if that warrants a higher BR, then so be it.

[MotorolaCRO]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Better armor (which base A2 and HCs also already have), CITV.

Do tell me how much is that armor upgrade affecting top tier darts.
SEP also has worse mobile than AIM.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

The Strv 122s are 12.7 despite having miserable 1st gen thermals. According to your logic, they should be a lower BR than the 2A7s and their 3rd gen thermals alone for that reason…?

Again, you have to tell me where it has been established that thermals don’t or can’t affect BRs.
Having better thermals can definitely tip the scale and move vehicles up.

AIM with a better round is a clear 2A6 counterpart and should be sitting at the same BR.
You being biased towards the US doesn’t change anything though.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@MotorolaCRO

You being biased towards the US doesn’t change anything though.

Lol

[MotorolaCRO]

Yeah, I still remember the “single BR step doesn’t matter, so M1s shouldn’t move up”.

[HOMINUSNOCTURNO-live]

@CAS is Bаlаnced

NO. This would cause incredible powercreep as T-72B3 and T-80Us would be rendered entirely useless. The shell balance is already fine at top tier, why ruin it?

It’d make ERA useless lol Russian mains would melt 😂

[IHаteCAS]

@HOMINUSNOCTURNO-live

It’d make ERA useless lol Russian mains would melt 😂

M829A3 would be terrible against Relikt but incredible against Kontact-5.

[IHаteCAS]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Better armor (which base A2 and HCs also already have), CITV.

I’ll put it like this, there is essentially 0 functional difference between KE-W A2 AIM and M1A2 SEP. Both are definitely worthy of the 12.7 BR and should be. Even with Gen 1, HC variants easily place above 90% of top tier tanks.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@CAS is Bаlаnced

Even with Gen 1, HC variants easily place above 90% of top tier tanks.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2A7HU, Strv 122B+, Strv 122B PLSS, Strv 122A are uncontestedly superior;

We could easily argue that Type 10, TKX, Merkava Mk.4M, Merkava Mk.4 LIC, Merkava Mk.4B, Leclerc S.XXI, Leclerc AZUR, Leclerc S.2, Leclerc S.1, T-80BVM and even Challenger 2E and Black Night are at very least on par, in an asymmetrical way and depending on the player and their playstyle.

The only tanks the 12.7 Abrams are uncontestedly superior to in their BR range are Arietes AMV and T-72B3A (both of which are overtiered), arguabily T-90M, and little more, which is honestly not all that impressive.

The 12.0 variants are a bit undertiered, they could be 12.3; but in no way are they worthy of being 12.7 along with the very top tanks in the game; not when the 12.7 ones sit there with superior thermals already.

After all, there must be a reason why T-80UE-1 is 12.0 while the other T-80Us are 11.7 when the only difference is thermal quality.

If I had to abide by the maximum BR being 12.7, I’d say the current 12.0 Abrams are 12.3-level (AIM getting its real KE-W A2 shell) and the 12.7 ones need to be there for the sake of compression; but if we eventually decompress to 13.0, these should stay at 12.7 and not move up to 13.0, where the uparmored Leopards, etc, would belong, alon with a theorically correct SEPv3.

[IHаteCAS]

@SPANISH_AVENGER

Leopard 2A7V, Leopard 2A7HU, Strv 122B+, Strv 122B PLSS, Strv 122A

I group all these as 1.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

we could argue Type 10, TKX, Merkava Mk.4M, Merkava Mk.4 LIC, Merkava Mk.4B, Leclerc S.XXI, Leclerc AZUR, Leclerc S.2, Leclerc S.1, T-80BVM and even Challenger 2E and Black Night to be roughly equivalent counterparts in an asymmetrical way.

No. Abrams is quite a bit better than all of the mentioned.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

The only tanks the 12.7 Abrams are uncontestedly superior to in their BR range are Arietes AMV and T-72B3A (both of which are overtiered), arguabily T-90M, and little more.

Abrams is objectively superior to Merkava, Leclerc, T-80BVM, Challies, and Type 10.

@SPANISH_AVENGER

The 12.0 ones are a bit undertiered, they could be 12.3; but in no way are they worthy of being 12.7 along with the very top tanks in the game.

They very much are. Gen 1 and Gen 2 should not warrant a BR difference, as anything better than Gen 1 is a QoL change.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@CAS is Bаlаnced

They very much are. Gen 1 and Gen 2 should not warrant a BR difference, as anything better than Gen 1 is a QoL change.

The difference between Gen 1 and 2/3 is being able to comfortabily spot, identify and engage anyone at any range… vs having to ruin your eyes seeing a blurry indistinguishable mess.

Gen 1 is barely good for spotting, while Gen 2/3 are great to use on a permanent basis at any range and under any circumstance.

Of course, this doesn’t mean outstanding tanks like the Strv 122s should be a lower BR just because of the thermals; but in the case of the Abrams, I believe it’s warranted, since their protection and survivability are orders of magnitude inferior.

[IHаteCAS]

You only use thermals for spotting and seeing through ESS, you don’t have them permanently on as no matter the generation, it is easier to identify a tank with regular view.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

@CAS is Bаlаnced

you don’t have them permanently on as no matter the generation, it is easier to identify a tank with regular view.

Well, in 2nd and 3rd gen’s case, I do use them on the whole time; they have more than enough resolution to identify tanks and even weakspots with precision, unlike Gen 1, which are simply a blurry mess that, at most ranges, barely work to spot in general.

Having 2/3 Gens, it’s more practical to just use them permanently for efficient spotting than go around switching them on and off all the time!

[IHаteCAS]

In my case I have them bound to an easily accessible key and will probably press it 100x per match. Its up to preference, but I think we can come to a conclusion that just having the thermals is enough, despite it being low res.

[HondaCivici]

I won’t argue that at longer ranges those sideskirts do come in clutch and give you breathing room to react, however it’s disingenuous to say that they will come in clutch in CQC. In almost all cases, your horizontal drive, will be taken out instantaneously and crew/other modules will follow suit.

Maybe your experience varies from mine, but I always win when against an Abrams when I catch it off guard in my BMPT.

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@MotorolaCRO

Yeah, I still remember the “single BR step doesn’t matter, so M1s shouldn’t move up”.

Aren’t you the guy who wanted to bring the SM3 down in BR before any of the new spaa were added?