60m multipath good luck with that one
Yeah, that Is my big worry, that F22s will just return us to. “Fly at tree top no higher” gameplay loop the F14 forced everyone into
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thread about how to improve the situation of us air, is literally just british mains
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It can use it’s RWR to produce GPS coordinates to for a JDAM, or they can be handed off to -120D’s over the two way datalink to update the predicted point of interception.
So it does have some passive sensors, but as such mechanics probably won’t be implemented in game there are issues that the F-22 will have with the fixed AESA Array.
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uh uhmmm pls f35b gaijin this will have no negative consequences on the economy and certainly not benefit a certain nation other than the US
how smart, how will it know where the enemy is?
BVR is supposed to be where the raptor does it’s best, but the fact of the matter is that it has no weapon capable of such long distance shots.
if i too, put a target flying toward me at mach 2, no maneuvering or using countermeasures. I will also have a NEZ of 60km.
no, the J-11’s cant do it, the 30SM cant do it, the 15C GE cant do it, every hornet cannot do it, you are grossly misinformed
so can the eurofigher? have you seen the super cruise numbers?
for what? the honest truth? look, stealth is growing more and more needed, but its not like it magically made the raptor an instant kill machine especially considering its so reliant on it having outside information. Will it be able to get closer to other aircraft before being detected? Yes, i haven’t contested that. Will it be able to illuminate a target for the datalink that is attempting to actively guide in a missile without being seen? No. Its actively having to blare its location to guide the missile in, anyone with a digital RWR can just turn toward to source and close until their radar detects the raptor or better yet, they lock it up on their IRST.
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Its gunna be really funny if the EFT gets its RWR HMD modeled, and the F-22s location just gets painted in the HMD so you know exactly where it is, Just a shame HMD is limited to cockpit only at the moment, would be really cool if it worked in third person too
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NEZ doesn’t mean you can’t notch missiles within that zone so a fail to see a point except stating the obvious?
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40KM is definitely a low ball, PIRATE has visual identification capabilities out to 50km so i’d consider that the lowest probable detection range (keep in mind the system is using software to enhance an IR image of the plane and present it to the pilot for visual identification in this mode detection should be happening way earlier).
Second point would be that aircraft with RCS reductions in the form of RAM generate more skin friction than those without, thus more heat, this implies a higher detection range than against regular targets. Additionally, most of these aircraft also feature IR suppression measures for the exhaust, which is an advantage against older systems, but due to the way PIRATE functions this leaves a ‘black hole’ of colder than average air behind the aircraft, which the system can pick up and evaluate many thousands of times a second to confirm its not a false alarm. This actually means that aircraft with either or both of these measures would be easier for PIRATE to detect than other aircraft.
As @Metaltank1990 has linked you my comments on PIRATE which summoned me here, I do highly recommend you read them if you’re interested in the topic.
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In Warthunder? Everyone comes from the same place.
In real life? Datalink.
If 160km doesn’t cut it for BVR in your twisted definition I don’t know what to tell you.
Lack of Reading Comprehension or Horrendously bad faith argument. Call it.
There are no j-11s at 14.3, I forgot the SM and SM2 are at the same BR, that’s on me, and the 15C GE very much can. There are no other hornets at 14.3.
Have you? It is not outrunning a BVRAAM with just Mil Thrust. The speedloss just in the turn alone would doom it from the start.
Lol?
As good as an argument this sounds, there’s a good number of flaws that aren’t accounted for. Like how the F-15E which is the premier american BVR aircraft currently is 14.0 while the GE with significantly weaker engines is 14.3, its also incredibly wrong to assume that just because something isn’t 14.3, doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be at 14.3. like the gripen E or strike eagle, both of which are very strong aircraft that have somehow escaped “true” top tier status.
Yes i have, and i have seen it done by German and British typhoons, i have also seen someone do it live, i have also done it myself when i was doing a favor for a friend who had the British typhoon and wanted me to see the flight disparity between it and the flanker-H.
I simply said the raptor has no capable weapon for BVR, you saying this magically does not make my point irrelevant considering i never said 160km was insufficient for BVR.
that’s the numbers for most missile tests, how do you think the French achieved a 100km test shot with MICA?
No. People (provided they are not base bombing bot accounts) will go separate paths, will they clump up in a certain area? Sure, but I’m not expecting all of my team to go left or go right, they could spread out across the map in one match or concentrate in the middle the next. These are individual people making individual decisions.
I quite frankly don’t care for the “well the missile can just be guided with datalink” argument because you are playing a videogame that prioritizes fast and unrewarding gameplay, gaijin as good as they are at modeling many things, will not go through the complicated process of analyzing and attempting to implement integrated information channels to literally every top tier, which then rewards gameplay that is unengaging and takes an agonizingly long time to play, I personally don’t have an issue with this but there are many people that don’t want this gameplay and they have already voiced these sentiments earlier in this very thread.
Hopefully you can provide sufficient argument instead of deflecting mine so we can continue this discussion.
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My favourite tactic at the moment in the Typhoon is flanking a bit and then turning in hot from the direction of their own AFs, catches them out every single time as they are running back to base for more missile only to find me firing C5s at Mach 1.5+
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Because it has less missiles and worse radar by quite a bit. And I wouldn’t call the engine difference significant. The 15C GE is about as good as the Su-30SM2 when it comes to speed and climbrate. That’s servicable for AirRB
I mainly used 14.3 because it’s easier than listing out each plane.
I’ll take the anecdotal evidence because I don’t really care about this point tbh.
?
Yeah but for BVR people will always be in front of you. Sure they can be a couple degrees off to the side or something but they’ll always be in front you.
Not talking about guiding in missiles. Just DL showing where people are in general.
*Until they update the game and it breaks again
People haven’t realize how missile count and radar performance already changed 14.3 quite bit. A good F15GE/SU30SM2 player could force a Rafale into disadvantage with their logn range missiles+AESA.
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I could buy that the SM2 can keep a rafale away but there is no way the F-15 Golden Shower is going to realistically keep a rafale at bay. Whats going to happen is it’s going to spam the aim-120 garbage rods, the rafale notches all of them and gets closer, and the Golden Shower gets to cope bc LARP BVR doesn’t work in this game.
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that’s not NEZ thats just max range. NEZ includes maneuvering
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You realize the Harrier is even more niche than the F-35 and there is are very good reasons no one gets Harriers for air to air right?
Really now? So can you produce a source for the 120D NEZ from raytheon? Can you produce their weapon tests for the 120D? I would love to be enlightened as to how you have these figures.
no but saying that non maneuvering target is NEZ makes 0 sense since that defeats the definition of NEZ
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It imparts significantly more energy onto the missile increasing its probability of kill, a significant advantage that will see more consistent missile hits.
No? As a matter of fact how do you know any of this? I took the liberty of looking at your account and quite frankly I’m baffled that you’re making assumptions and interpretations on aircraft you have never flown or even flown early models of.
You want evidence? Sure man here’s gunjob just outrunning R-77-1’s at high altitude, he chaffs but the missiles keep lock and track while he just out runs them https://youtu.be/n9FVOSwkp6o?si=3evTfaL0UDAeEr29
What? Are you going to say anything productive or continue to try to stifle my arguments and points because you have no real informed counter?
Are you going to make a counterpoint?
No this was almost certainly in relation to missile guidance considering you had previously stated that a raptor could attack without being detected, and when i asked how it knew where the opposing aircraft was you backed into datalink, and when i continued to press the issue you have now decided to entirely change it back to missiles. Of which my point still stands,. Gaijin, as good as they are at modeling will most likely not go through the very intensive process of modeling datalink for a multitude of aircraft and the variations of how it will work.
Yes, that’s how you maximize your kill probability. You shoot the enemy in front of you. Can you make a rebuttal that proves my own interpretation of how teams spread out in battle wrong? I am very willing to talk with you on this but quite frankly I’m not seeing anything that contradicts my statements that you have said other than a growing pile of logical fallacies.
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