though imo, NEZ is the important figure. Its one thing to be able to yeet a missile at incredibly long range and it maybe hit the target if the target was either unaware of the threat or failed to take any action, but if they do, its trivial defeat, heck they might even accidental defeat it by simply turning without ever knowing they were fired upon in the first place.
Its another when the missile is fired from long range and the target is totally unable to defeat it kinematically.
Its why Aim-120C5s, despite having such long range in game, are considered pretty trash, because fired beyond the NEZ, they will miss their target quite often without the target even really having to do much, a lot of missiles get wasted early game because players turn cold passively and thus usually end up defeating any very long ranged shots
you might be right you might be wrong, this is not info we’re privy too, but because of the nature of how classified modern aircraft and weaponry is game balance should take the forefront. the reason aim120c5s suck is because theyre modelled badly
Yeah, but that shouldnt mean that Meteor ends up with a smaller range than Aim-120D just because the Typhoon is a better aircraft, that would be rather unfair. Especially as AIm-120D should already have the HOBS advantage and if we are still stuck with 9Ms, that could be a significant advantage in the in-game context.
Yeah, but I still think that raw max range is one of the least important attributes for these ARHs especially with such tiny maps
Interestingly, the EA-18G doesn’t have internal EW suites like the Eurofighter/Rafale. It also for the longest time did not have AESA jammers until the NGJ pods were delivered in 2023 while Rafale/EFT were using integrated AESA jammers. And if EA-18G players take NGJ pods, they would sacrifice 1-2 AIM174Bs and it can already only take 4 of those in the first place.
And because they’re pods, they seem to have very limited jamming capability above the aircraft where the airframe would block the jammers, and so multipathing jamming F-18s would have a bad day against missiles shot from above.
So in essence, an EW meta would be worse for the Hornets compared to now since it would sacrifice missile loadout, need to be lugged around, and have limited verticality.
This is part of what I mean yeah. There’s no coherence in teams, neither in the matchmaking, the objectives or the rewards.
You’re not playing with teammates, just next to them and sometimes even against them
Sim has the most potential at the moment for sure. It actually tries to put specialized vehicles in their actual role instead of throwing everyone in a pure deathmatch. This mode deserves more love
Yeah… it really does, half the problems facing higher BR aircraft at the moment could be resolved with a really decent RB EC gamemode on much larger maps
But pound for pound it is? A ramjet motor missile can pack in more fuel than a conventional motor missile of the same size since it forego oxidizers, and thus get more range out of it.
What makes you think Pirate could find an F-22 at ranges that matter for BVR? From what I’ve seen it can’t even find normal incoming planes at 50-80km… And of course it’s heavily affected by anything not absolutely perfect weather. Even an F-22 without the thermal reflective coat will ideally not be spotted until at least 25km. And that’s pushing it considering it doesn’t need to ever be in afterburner to fight other jets.
And while we’re talking about brute forcing stuff, I see you failed to mention the Raptor just doing the same thing to the Eurofighter. The Raptor will take potshots from 200km-60km without being seen and sure, you can defeat those missiles, but you can’t see the Raptor while it can see you, and guide in it’s missiles. That’s a big advantage. Then factoring in endurance, multiple fighters on each side, and other factors, and it’s not that simple as “F-22 shoots and Eurofighter defeats all the missiles” because fights will get closer in WT. And of course in the WVR arena the F-22 is unmatched.
Then the F-22 is no longer supporting the shot and the missile has become incredibly easy for the Typhoon to defeat and thus is no longer a threat.
50-80km is average weather, good weather figures are more like 150km
Please provide a source for this.
and wasting missiles, meaning when it enters range, its fighting ASRAAMs and Meteors with nothing but guns
Is it?
By this logic a Tornado should never beat an F-16 in a dogfight. Ive done in multiple times and if we are including HOBS missiles into the equation, raw performance becomes less of a factor.
You are also operating on an assumption in this that stealth wont be a balancing mechanic and instead will be as faithfully accurate as possible at which point I would argue that the F-22 should be at signfiicantly higher BR than any Gen 4 and so Gen 5s can just spend the entire match flying around blind to each other and leave Gen 4s to actually fight.
But again, it’s just another reduction in energy, position, and awareness for the EFT while the Raptor exceeds in those areas.
Rear aspect, afterburning target. Also not realistic for perfect weather.
I don’t think I need to? If Pirate can’t find a fighter sized target coming at it from 50km that has no IR suppressing qualities, it would be safe to assume a target like that with no afterburner on and a design specifically made to reduce it’s signature wouldn’t fare as great.
I’m not sure why you assumed it would take all 6 of the F-22’s AMRAAMs to reach within range when it’s not being contested. Maybe 1 or 2 realistically.
Yes.
A tornado never should beat an F-16 in a dogfight and your anecdotal evidence of this doesn’t mean anything.
Assuming they merge and these HOBs missile mean so much, The F-22 would just win harder then, no? It has thrust vectoring and better instantaneous even without it.
Counterpoint: Rafale
It’s radar is more powerful from everything I’ve checked and is reinforced by it’s longer range. AESAs are AESAs. Speed definitely won’t matter end all be all. Gimbal matters but only in close ranges. In real life near the gimbal limits the range should fall off drastically, but it doesn’t in warthunder.
CM counts don’t matter as much when you aren’t being shot at, because y’know, you’re a stealth aircraft.
There’s that classic bad faith argument.
With or without radar reflectors /s
Anyways, The F-35 has worse stealth than the F-22, so it would say little to none. In this hypothetical though (which I already entertained above) I would say the F-22 would probably do what it’s designed to do, which is swat bandits out of the sky from hundreds of kms away.
Or, it has a weaker radar (Slower AESA, no Gimball) and worse defensive suite (60 CMs?) and worse mission endurance (6-8 missiles?) . Its only major advantage is stealth which may or may not be modeled completely and IR signatures definetly arent, even with its IR reduction, the F-117 is still a hotter aircraft than an afterburning F-5.
What if the Typhoon is perfectly capable of detecting the F-22 at 60km? Which is actually a reasonable figure for the ECRS Mk2 for the F-35 iirc. What will the F-22 do then?
C-5s are not bad because their NEZ isn’t good enough. They are shit because long range missiles are easy to notch and the C-5 is the worst ARH missile at close range because it doesn’t pull or accelerate well enough off the rail. I guarantee you meteors are just going to be better fakour-90s. When they first get added it might catch people off but eventually it’s going to be notched like every other long-range missile because at the BR it would be at planes wont have trash RWRs. Unless its close-range performance is comparable or better to the MICA or R-77-1 it’s going to be mid me thinks.
Perhaps, but it really depends on what/if other things are added. If they were added at a similar time as ASRAAM for example… Why would I fire a Meteor at something closer than 30km when I could fire an ASRAAM instead?
Though I make C5s work reasonably well, easily get 2-3 kills per game with them, you’d be surprised by how many people try to just kinematically defeat them only to eat it. Massively increase their NEZ and give them MICA seekers? Now you are talking.
Not too mention that their higher cruise speed means shorter times to target for longer ranges, so assuming a mach 3.5 cruise speed (which I think is on the low end) that is 50 seconds to hit something 60km away. (at Mach 4.5 which I think might be reasonable for maximum speed figures, thats 39 seconds)
Will they suite someone with an aggresive playstyle? Probably not, but for me, more defensive and preferring to stay in BVR… Im very much looking forward to them
