I want the Rb24J to be removed from the JA-37C(?) & JA-37D because it wasn’t mounted on it in service. ever.
Just give it the Skyflash as a stock missile and maybe the RB 27,
and M163 should go +1 br up
If it got sabots and useful radar then yes, I think it could actually be a really good, and actually unique 8.3 SPAA, unlike the 999,999,999 Gepard clones.
Honestly getting amraams would make a gap for a solid dogfighter in the BR range.
I think it would be better if we got the M163A2 PIVADS which was improved overall, with the Mk. 149 APDS rounds instead of the existing early variant of the M163 receiving it. The PIVADS could be BR 8.3 since the round would give it ~63mm of penetration and increased range.
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That is also a good option, but the M163 should receive some sorta improvement either way as it’s still abit lacking compared to tanks like the ZSUs.
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Removing missiles that make the JA-37C strong… nerfing the Viggen…
How about no.
I agree but I think there’s quite a disparity with the M163 we have in-game. We have the base version used in Vietnam. Advanced ammunition (at least imo) like the MK149 APDS should come with the M163A2 which had some improvements in accuracy/fire control and etc. The base M163 could get moved down a little bit in BR to help it.
From what I can tell the RB 27 was only used on later Drakens (we don’t have the Falcon missile ingame anyways and I don’t think gaijin is planning on adding it anytime soon).
I’ve read that the JA 37s did get RB24Js and only the initial strike variants (AJ 37) weren’t fitted with them.
aand what would this source be that even the national Swedish military aviation museum doesent have?
I have been at the archive and asked the people working there about it, the Rb 24J was only mentioned in the (wait no lol) and J35s.
(A while ago i think i saw something mentioning a J32B variant was equipped with it? not sure so i wont claim it was.)
This is why im behind the J35XS to get it if it was proven to have it.
And i extremely for the J35F & J35J to be added just so the Rb27 could be used.
If they never had RB24Js, then what did they use?
The AIM-9P3 was the most recent IR missile Sweden had access to when the first JA 37s were delivered. They obviously had been cleared to use them.
If they never actually used them in combat, that’s one thing, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t have them ingame.
I’m legitimately asking here, since I don’t have access to manuals or those sources that you mentioned.
well, darn. I looks like im wrong here:
Arboga Robot museum(Arboga Missile Museum, national museum.)
Sammanfattning
The RB24J Sidewinder is an air-launched air-to-air missile of American origin, part of the Sidewinder family. The RB24J corresponds closely to the American version AIM-9J, which began to be introduced into the Swedish Air Force in 1978. The missile is named after the American pit viper Sidewinder (Crotalus Cerastes), known for using infrared vision to locate its prey and capable of killing in complete darkness.
Features and Improvements:
In this version, several modifications were made based on the previous RB 24B model. These modifications primarily consisted of tactical usage improvements. The missile could be carried by all versions of the Saab 37 Viggen and the JAS 39 Gripen aircraft. The RB 24J featured an improved infrared (IR) seeker that guided the missile toward heat sources. Once the pilot’s aircraft reached a favorable attack position, the pilot activated the missile’s seeker. When the seeker locked onto the target, a tone was heard in the pilot’s headset, and the missile could be fired.
The missile was propelled by an improved solid rocket motor, providing longer flight time. The warhead system consisted of a combat unit initiated by a laser proximity fuse manufactured in Sweden. The warhead could also be triggered by impact fuzes upon direct hits. The hexatonal warhead spread shrapnel in all directions.
The avionics now included many transistors, and the power source remained a solid fuel gas-driven turbo generator. Enhancements included thermal cooling of the seeker’s detector element to around -30°C and an IR window in the 2.3 – 2.9-micrometer wavelength range for increased sensitivity. The nose section was conically shaped to reduce air resistance, the fins were reshaped to a double-delta form for better maneuverability, and the solid rocket motor had increased thrust and longer burn time, doubling the missile’s flight time. The IR proximity fuse was replaced by a Swedish-manufactured laser proximity fuse.
During the free flight phase, the lead angle was increased to 40 degrees, and a new function called the Rate-Bias circuit was introduced into the avionics. This function directed the seeker slightly ahead of the actual aiming point in the target, an advantage if tracking was lost in the final phase.
Before launch, the RB24J seeker was locked parallel to the aircraft’s line of sight, with the target indicated by a higher frequency tone. The missile was aimed and fired similarly to the RB24B and was guided to the target in the same way.
In the Saab 37 and 39 aircraft, the seeker could be released for target tracking before launch to improve hit probability. For the JA37 and JAS39 aircraft, a Head-Up Display (HUD) adapter could be installed to present the target designation symbol, called IR-MUS, in the aircraft’s sightline indicator.
The RB24J started to be introduced into the Swedish Air Force (Flygvapnet) in 1978.
Specifications:
-
Length: 3.047 m
-
Warhead: 4.8 kg
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Wingspan: 0.559 m
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Arming Conditions: Acceleration > 18 g for 1.4 seconds
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Weight: 81 kg
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Arming Time: 1.4 seconds
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Motor Thrust: 17,000 N (SAO-109)
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Motor Burn Time: 3.5 seconds
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Maximum Speed: Mach 2.0
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Maximum Proximity Fuse Distance: 9 meters
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Minimum Speed for Controlled Flight: Mach 0.8
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Self-Destruct Time: 43 seconds
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Seeker Lobe Width: 2 degrees
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Seeker Precession Rate: 16.5 degrees/second
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Maximum Guided Flight Time at 3,000 m Altitude: approximately 40 seconds
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Weapon Carriers: J35D/F/J, AJ37, AJS37, SH37, SF37, JA37, and JAS39
From what i read the Rb27&Rb28 but since these were never in-service. only tested on a J35D variant i believe?
Sammanfattning
RB27 and RB28
On display at the Robot Museum
Robot RB27 and RB28 belong to the American Falcon family and are developed from the basic version Air Interception Missile 26 and AIM-4 . It originated in the United States and in 1955 delivery began to the US Navy for arming the F9F Cougar and FJ3 Fury aircraft and later also the USAF for arming the F102 Delta Dagger , F106 Delta Dart and F4 Phatom II .
Sweden began negotiating with the USA as early as 1958 to be able to purchase the versions GAR-1 with semi-active radar target seeker and GAR-2 with IR target seeker. The Falcon robots and a Radar sighting system (Fire Control System FCS) adapted for them were developed by Hughes Airkraft Company, HAC. The robots were available in five versions and in addition to the above mentioned also GAR-11 with semi-active radar target finder and nuclear charge, GAR-3 with semi-active radar target finder (more expensive version) and GAR-4 with IR target finder working at 3-4 µm wavelength. Sweden chose as the radar robot GAR-11 with conventional effect part (combat part) and new ZON tube. It was given the designation HM-55 by HAC and RB27 in the Air Force . The GAR-2 with the target seeker from the GAR-4 was chosen as the IR robot. It was given the designation HM-58 by HAC and in FV RB-28 . These versions were also purchased by the USAF under the designation AMI-26B (RB27) and AMI-4C (RB28).
Hunting robot RB 27
RB27 for demonstration. Image UGM
The RB 27 was procured for the Air Force to combat fast-flying bombers at high altitude and at long range in all weathers and in the dark. The RB27 was fitted with a radar echo-detecting passive (semi-active) target seeker adapted to the carrier aircraft’s Aiming Radar PS-01/011. The robot’s target seeker and control system could lead the robot in a collision course towards a calculated hit point, i.e. according to the principle of aim bearing navigation (also called proportional navigation) and to continuously correct this course taking into account the target’s speed, course and altitude changes. The robot was normally fired during a direct attack DA calculated by the aircraft’s Radar sight S-7B3/31 with a possible subsequent Jaktkurve attack JK (so-called double attack). The target seeker required radar illumination of the target with the aircraft’s sighting radar, alternatively control using noise or CW (Continuous Waw) type jamming signals from the target during the approach time. The robot was steered aerodynamically with trailing-edge rudders on wings and corrected for disturbances in all planes with an automatic controller. The robot’s avionics consisted of miniature components that included subminiature electron tubes. As a power source, an adapted electricity supply from the carrier aircraft was used, and after switching to “Internal power” with an irreversible quick-activating battery and hydraulic system. Before firing, the robot had to be primed, which was done in steps called A, B, C, and F prime and determined by the sight. These concerned the choice of robot and the power supply, but also when and how the target seeker would be slaved to the frequency and distance measurement of the flight radar and the pointing direction of the radar antenna.
The robot was propelled by a single-stage powder rocket engine. The effector consisted of a warhead with a zigzag link that was initiated from an active radar zone tube or by impact contacts. The robot was hung from a Robot beam F5 with which the aircraft supplied the target seeker’s avionics before firing through cabling and a retractable connector.
The RB27 was manufactured under license in Sweden by Bofors and SAAB as well as LM Ericsson and began to be supplied to the Swedish FV in 1965.
Robot 27. Image SAAB/FMV
Data, Performance
| Length | 2,169m |
|---|---|
| Combat charge | 6.6 kg |
| Span | 0.620 m |
| Reinforcement conditions | Acceleration >40 gi <0.8 s |
| Weight | 116.5 kg |
| Arming time | 1.2 – 2.2 sec |
| Delayed Zone Tube Initiation BAK Seizure | 9 ms |
| Self-destruction | 27 sec |
| Engine power at 20 gr | 25000N |
| Engine burning time | 2.0 sec (gunpowder) |
| Max controlled flight time at flight altitude 3.0 km | approx. 14 sec |
| My speed for controllable flight | M 1.0 |
| Max speed above the aircraft | M 1.4 |
| Target seeker frequency range | x-band (8 – 12.5 GHz) |
| Target seeker lobe width | |
| Stationary | 25 degrees |
| When rotating | 50 degrees |
| The target seeker’s maximum deflection angle | 45 degrees |
| The target finder’s maximum precision speed | 6 degrees/s |
| Target seeker’s enslaving speed | about 10 degrees/s |
| Battery capacity | 0.7 Ah |
| Maximum removable battery time | about 90 p |
Weapon carrier: J35F and J35J
Hunting robot RB28
RB28 for demonstration. Image UGM
The RB28 was procured for the Air Force along with the RB27. It was intended to be used primarily for combating bombers at high altitude in clear weather within line of sight or in darkness. The RB28 was fitted with a passive heavily cooled IR-sensitive target seeker with an indium/antimonide detector. The material and cooling allowed an IR window within a wavelength for detection of relatively low heat that resulted in tracking on the target in almost all directions and less impact of jamming. The robot’s target finder and control system could, like the RB27, guide the robot in a collision course towards a calculated hit point, i.e. according to the principle of aim bearing navigation and to continuously correct this course with regard to the target’s speed, course and altitude changes. The robot was normally fired during an aim-calculated Direct Attack DA with a possible subsequent Hunting Curve attack JK (so-called double attack). Alternatively, it could be fired with the seeker locked and parallel to the aircraft’s line of sight when visually targeting.
The target seeker required IR signal from the hot parts of the target during the walking time towards the same. The robot was steered aerodynamically with trailing-edge rudders on wings and corrected for disturbances in all planes with an automatic controller. The robot’s avionics consisted of miniature components that included subminiature electron tubes. As a power source, an adapted electricity supply from the carrier aircraft was used, and after switching to “Internal power” with an irreversible quick-activating battery and cooling system as well as a hydraulic system. Before firing, the robot had to be primed, which was done in steps called A, B, C, and F prime and determined by the sight. These concerned the choice of the robot and the power supply, but also when and how the target seeker should be slaved to the pointing direction of the radar antenna or the sight’s target.
The robot was propelled by a single-stage powder rocket engine. The effect part consisted of a combat part which was initiated by impact contacts. The robot was hung from a Robot beam (same as the RB27) with which the aircraft supplied the target seeker’s avionics before firing through cabling and a retractable connector.
The RB28 was license manufactured in Sweden by Bofors and SAAB as well as LM Ericsson and began to be supplied to the Swedish Air Force in 1965.
Robot 28. Image SAAB/FMV
Data, Performance
| Length | 2,012m |
|---|---|
| Combat charge | 1.3 kg |
| Span | 0.508 m |
| Reinforcement conditions | Acceleration >20 gi 0.4 – 0.7s |
| Weight | 61 kg |
| Arming time | 1.0 – 2.0 sec |
| Self-destruction | 25 sec |
| Engine power at 20 gr | 18800 N (gunpowder) |
| Engine burning time at 20 gr | 1.3 sec |
| Max controlled flight time at flight altitude 3.0 km | about 12 p |
| My speed for controllable flight | M 1.0 |
| Max speed above the aircraft | M 1.4 |
| Target seeker wavelength range | 3.84 – 5.5 µm |
| Target seeker lobe width | |
| Stationary | 3.5 degrees |
| When rotating | 6.3 degrees |
| The target seeker’s maximum deflection angle | 47 degrees |
| The target finder’s maximum precision speed | 6 degrees/s |
| Target seeker’s enslaving speed | about 10 degrees/s |
| The working temperature of the IR cell | -180 degrees C |
| Maximum cooling time that can be withdrawn | About 60 – 80s |
| Maximum removable battery time | about 90 p |
Weapon carrier: J35F and J35J
Then you have the very hotly debated Rb74
Sammanfattning
RB71
On display at the Robot Museum
Area of use
Robot 71 was a medium-range fighter robot for JA37 Viggen aircraft.
History
Robot 71 is the Swedish name for the English Skyflash , developed and manufactured by British Aerospace Defense Dynamics. The robot has been operational on JA37 Viggen since 1980 and underwent modification in Sweden in the 1990s.
System description
Robot 71 is a semi-active radar hunting robot, which means that the robot is equipped with a passive radar receiver that assumes that the aircraft’s radar illuminates the target. The reflected radar radiation is captured by the robot’s target seeker, which receives information about the direction of the target.
The following main units are included in Robot 71:
- Radome
- Target finder/Zone tube section
- Automatic steering/Power unit section
- Wing hub section with rudder
- Combat part
- Rocket engine with wings and rear antenna.
The target seeker receives radar echoes from the target and background and filters out target signals for further transmission to the control unit. The target finder is made up of antenna, receiver and signal processing unit.
The controller converts the direction to the target into control data for the robot. The automatic control unit also ensures that the robot has a stable trajectory. This control principle is called target bearing control.
The zone tube has the task of detecting when the robot is within the range of action of the combat unit and via the fuse and arming unit to initiate the combat unit. Direct impact on the target also initiates the combat part.
The warhead’s shrapnel is of the link type, “continuous rod”, which means that it has two layers of steel rods around the explosive. The steel rods are joined at the ends. Upon detonation, a steel ring is formed which hits and produces a coherent cut in the target.
The robot is propelled to high supersonic speed by a gunpowder rocket engine which is designed so that the gunpowder gases will not prevent the illumination radar’s reference signal from reaching the robot’s rear antenna. The reference signal is needed so that the robot can know with certainty that the reflected radar echoes really originate from the aircraft’s radar.
Read more:
The acquisition of Robot 7 1 (Rolf Nordström)
Air Power Australia (External link)
Technical data
| Weight | 195 kg |
|---|---|
| Length | 3.7 m |
| Span | 1 m |
| Engine | The powder rocket |
| Scope | >30 km |
| Max speed | >700 m/s |
| Target seeker | Semi-active radar |
| Goal | Aerial target |
| Principle of action | Link splitter |
| Initiation of action part | Zone pipes, allowances |
| Platform | JA37 Viggen |
not talking abou the IRS-T and Rb 99 since they doesent relate to the JA-37C, AJ-37 etc.
Now im going to bed
It is- the falcons were provided when the XS’s were shipped to finland iirc.
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The J-35XS should get its missing Falcons and R-13M missiles as it carried both in Finnish service together.
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jh-7a with its 4 KD-88
Actually overall they just need to add R-13M back to the planes that carried it.
Why they removed R-13M and replaced it with R-13M1 on some planes or didnt replace it at all is really odd.
The MiG-19PT, MiG-21S/SPS-K/SMT/MF/BiS and MiG-23/27s are all capable of carrying it.
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Nobody claimed they didn’t, if you actually read what he is responding to you would see that he is responding to a guy claiming that Western tanks have it removed to force them to “play like Russian tanks” by pointing out that IRL Russian tanks have those systems to.
To be fair given russian corruption they might not ;)
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in un-related news, top Russian General arrested with thermal imaging in his Lada…
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