I think many players don’t want scouting to be nerfed or even removed because they fear it would weaken their favorite light tanks.
Even if that were to happen, it wouldn’t automatically mean that such a change would be bad for the game.
But I don’t even think such a change would weaken light tanks; it would simply change the tactical role of light tanks again.
For example, if a heavy tank is spotted, it won’t be as devastating for it as if a light tank is spotted planning an ambush or flanking maneuver. Removing scouting would open up some new tactical possibilities, especially for light tanks.
Removing scouting would deprive light tanks of the opportunity to earn rewards with little skill. But at the same time, it would also lead to them remaining undetected by the enemy much more often and for longer periods of time. This would allow light tanks to operate more offensively in the flanks or even behind the enemy front.
So removing scouting would make light tanks more of a high risk, high reward vehicle again.
Imo light tanks can retain their ability to scout but, IMO there should be ways to clear the marker like when the target uses smoke shells, the marker should disappear should the marked target entered the smoke-affected radius (they can copy-pasta their existing codes from arcade where smoke clears the nametag), the marker remains visible as long as the target is within the line of sight of any teammates, which means they can simply drive into somewhere where nobody can see them then the marker disappears. Ever notice that any time you fail to kill a light tank in one hit, the entire world comes after your ass, planes, helicopters agms, bullet start flying in your direction like the world wanted you dead lol
This is one of the main issues with scouting. It’s too potent. It can turn RB engagements into arcade ones, with the added factor that you have to locate your opponent again every 30 seconds so that the automatic marking continues.
The issue is that light tanks at best can only remain undected by not killing anyone. As soon as you do get a kill, they get your exact location that they can broadcast to their team, and since SP costs are far too low, they get multiple shot at revenge kill, or they just get CAS and then it’s a gamble on wether the guy you killed is as bad in the air as he is on the ground. Scouting was a good way to indirectly kill people to preserve your position.
It wouldn’t be as bad if we had large, better laid out, less dense maps where you can actually move around and leverage the high speed of a light tank, but unfortunately the game is what it is, and removing scouting would up the risk, but not the reward. Flanking already somewhat hinders your teammates by having less bodies in the faceslamming around the points, if you can’t help your team by feeding them info, you have to slaughter reinforcements, and that would disproportionnately impact light tanks that are already on the somewhat poorer end of the spectrum like the Type 89.
You cannot compare getting a kill to getting scouted. It never happens that the whole enemy team instantly knows where I am just because I kill someone.
I highly doubt you know the location of every enemy that killed a mate of yours, too. You simply cannot compare getting scouted to killing somebody, scouting is a way more effective.
Maybe I’m wrong with that interpretation but your text kind of implies that scouting doesn’t really change anything about the situation ingame regarding being spotted. Even if that was the case, which it is not, that would mean the removal of scouting would change anything anyways.
Only because the CAS situation is bad that doesn’t make scouting any better.
The difference between somebody trying to revenge you and scouting is that with scouting the whole enemy team could potentially be after you.
Agreed. I demand a removal/nerf of scouting and a better map design for light tanks (and TDs).
What I meant is: the new tactical possibilities that would arise for light tanks if scouting were removed (among map reworks) would bring with them a playstyle that is inherently riskier, but can also have a significant impact on the battlefield.
Light tanks would have more opportunities than less mobile tanks, but on the other hand they were more risky to play.
As I already described in the text quoted below,
The Type 89 is not representative of all light tanks.
Without having it, I don’t think the Type 89 is bad. Autocannons are less effective against sufficiently thick armor, but are very effective against light armor. Many people -and understandably so- talk about many of the tanks with autocannons and SPAAs being rat tanks but whenever they cannot penetrate something their massive advantages against light armor seem to be forgotten.
My point wasn’t to conflate getting a kill to being scouted, but getting a kill to scouting someone, since the killcams give your exact location to the people you kill, as a light tanks you lose your stealth when you kill someone, but you can retain it by instead scouting. Granted it gives a pseudo BMS to everyone, but with the way that teams function in WT if Gaijin wants a teamplay element, they’ll lay it on thick, current scouting being as close as possible to a wallhack without being one.
If scouting were to be removed, everyone would gain stealthiness by no longer risking being scouted, but light tanks would lose stealthiness since the only way they can help their team now is by killing or capping.
What makes scouting a big issue is the picture in picture mode of the recon drone that allows to scout without any restrictions of LoS. But that is a bug that should be reported as such since when Gaijin introduced the recon drones they specifically denied that they were to work with the scouting mechanic.
I still think that CAS, specifically as a revenge kill tool is a far more annoying thing since you have only one recourse against it.
Considering that the Type 89 is foldered below the Type 87RCV, I shouldn’t have brought it up at all since it’s a more optional vehicle nowadays. I wasn’t aware of that change. It’s still the worst 9.0 vehicle in the Japanese TT, it’s only positive is the LWS.
Also on light tank having low firepower, when you’re around 9.x, there is a proliferation of 105 light tanks that have no issue matching MBTs in firepower, with only the VEXTRA being somewhat left out and that’s just because Gaijin is being weird about it. This is more of a problem with the game being simplistic again, and IFVs being forced into the role of light tanks. Maybe this’ll change in the near future.
Only the one player you killed can see the killcam, it’s not that hard to avoid getting revenge killed by one.
I don’t know anyone who doesn’t kill enemies in his light tank in order to maintain stealthiness. Are you for real suggesting that not killing anybody, just scouting, is a thing? I doubt that players refrain from killing tanks that pass them, for example. If anybody does, he should rethink his playstyle.
This video shows a lot of what I really really dislike about the whole reconnaissance stuff.
I don’t even want to know how many times I got shot off impossible angles just because I was scouted.
If you like being killed through 20 house gaps and half a forest or people coming around the corner, instantly knocking you out because they could track you through scouting, then scouting is what offers you that experience.
It’s only ever as easy as the person trying to kill you is bad, and the general pop of GFRB is nothing if not bad at CAS. See the discrepancy between CAS capabilities and AA capabilities for illustration.
Revenge kill is it’s own problem, scouting is the current only preventive measure you have for it as a light tank.
The Type 93 experience, and probably youtube videos.
For me every kill opportunity is case by case, but generally, if taking a kill is likely to result in a trade, then it’s not worth it, so I’ll scout and then attempt to secure my position to no longer be threatened before I resume killing.
Said playstyle’s been serving me alright on my VEXTRA, my light vehicle endeavours started on the abysmal AMX-10RC, but just because I have less limitations on what I currently play I should throw away all that was learned ?
I don’t see though how scouting would prevent you from getting bombed.
In fact, when being scouted it is way easier for CAS to spot you.
Even if it did, why should only light tanks be able to prevent getting revenge-bombed?
So we should keep scouting for all light tanks just because of one SPAA?
You can do all that without scouting as well. You don’t need to scout somebody in order to not get killed by him.
This actually shows how stupid scouting is; if somebody spots you, he can still do nothing against being scouted by you and getting a huge disadvantage for the next 30 seconds.
Honestly, if you are not able to achieve anything without the free assist scouting mechanic, maybe you should think about how you can become more effective.
If you genuinely don’t know how to play without scouting I have to ask myself how you play tanks like the AMX-30 that is very similar to many light tanks but doesn’t have scouting.
I don’t even mean it as a personal attack, this is just very odd in my opinion because actually I don’t believe you wouldn’t be able to perform without scouting.
I know scouting can help you in matches but that’s obviously not the point here. The point I think is odd is that you talk as if your playstyle is fully reliant on scouting and would be impossible without.
But there is a difference between a useful mechanic and a mechanic that is absolutely crucial to play light tanks. Scouting is definitely not absolutely crucial.
Just to make sure that we’re not actually in agreement but I’ve expressed myself poorly.
Is you main gripe with scouting it’s use as a tool for 1 on 1 engagements on the good light tanks that outmatch regular tanks at their BR by performance alone ?
That’s one of the things I don’t like about scouting.
It goes from the unfair 1v1 advantage, to how it impacts the overall gameplay.
Basically, what makes playing without enemy markers so special suffers. I believe that scouting should not be a part of Ground RB, people who want it are just too proud to switch over to Arcade, so they want to turn Realistic into it.
I do have to say that scouting as it is right now is not realistic at all. A way to solve this (maybe?) would be to require the UAV to fly around (nowadays, wars work like this) and increase rewards for shooting the drone down or give an achievement (ground rescuer maybe). This way, scouting would have the same duration as before but if the scout drone is out, all scouted targets disappear from the map and visuals and you can’t scout anymore until you get the UAV again (they lowered the reload time to 45 seconds either way). This way, it would be more realistic and shooting drones down would be a bit more appealing.
Light tanks dont need scouting, and certainly not airstrike.
Id rather just see hit markers removed, and scouting have the same effect hit markers do now with significant cd but given to everyone.
Scouting punishes aggresive plays way more than campers, camping spots are behind cover, you can wait it out and you only peak from these spots for a second. Trying to push while scouted is a death sentence.
The issue is that you your entire movement is visible on the minimap for 30s.
Imagine, if scouting aircrafts makes you have a AB/RB marker on your plane for 30s.
You would get instantly swarmed by planes and targeted by any SPAA.
Currently it calls out the target and gives ground units a direction marker.
Scouting should alert the team about the position of a vehicle, not completely negate any lack of visibility to the target.
The current implementation makes no sense.
Just how you can’t protect yourself from a plane targeting you out of nowhere, you can’t defend yourself from everyone on the enemy team knowing your exact position despite no one having visuals.
