Wargaming levels of greed

Game Discussion General Discussion
1

Ok, I thought gaijin might have finally started and tried to redeem themselves with this update. I saw the new AA mechanic and was like, “that’s cool, can’t wait to hop on dev server and try out CAMM for Italy, because we need it a lot”. Welp would you guys my disappointment hopping on the dev.

I will complain a lot about the state of Italy TT in this post, but this doesn’t just affect Italy.

This update I counted 14 premiums/packs. This number goes up to 20 if you include each vehicle from the WW2 multi packs.

On the contrary we have 27 tech tree vehicles, only 23 of which are somewhat meaningful additions.

Now let me go over what I am calling, “premium slop”. Essentially, some of these premiums aren’t even good, just plain bad or straight copy paste. Just another revenue stream.

Premium Slop

Examples are MiG-29 Sniper - copy paste mesh, retexture. Its M-2032 radar is getting removed to the horrible NO29 export model, its armament is final. Probably will get nerfed more if we go on the pattern of Italy tech tree.

Z-10A - copy paste with a few extra parts, China already has good top tier heli, just extra revenue source.

L2A4NL - copy paste. added to be a “reliable premium”. Gaijin also said that they don’t want the MSC to be a premium because its armor/its too unique. Guess what. Gaijin added the RAH-66 as a premium, and the MSC now has composite armor modelled.

NF-5A - Not only copy paste, but is straight pay to win. It is on par with the F-5E if not somewhat better, only missing ground ordinance, and is at a lower BR.

VTB-10 - low tier french coastal slop, they already have low tier coastal premium

Britain multi pack - these multi packs suck so much. Especially britain’s one actually will suck ingame. 2 vehicles with a 17 pounder and the crusader aa. No one will buy this if they know better, we also already have the same premium ingame with polski sherman IC which is farrr cheaper

Russian multi pack - copy paste of ingame vehicles, kind of pay to win because the premiums get better armor at same BR

USA multi pack - you get the point, i don’t like the multi packs.

Keep in mind the multi packs all have similar GE or pack vehicles already ingame at the same BR. These packs were only added as premium copy-paste slop

Also, the naval premiums are literally just copy-paste of top tier battlecruisers, removing main guns, and replacing them with bismark guns.

F-18C - actually germany kinda needs this one

"Unique Premiums"

The funny thing is the almost all premiums added in this update were added to nations who already have the exact same premiums or a good counterpart

The “unique premiums” are a good example of this

RAH-66 - should have been an event vehicle, USA already has a top tier premium heli and also the rah-66 is in my opinion better due to its reduced IR sig and 16 ATAS

F-2A ADTW - don’t even get me started I have a whole part dedicated to F-2A later in this post

F-2A Complaining

All I have to say is this, the F-2A was claimed to be SOOOO overpowered it couldn’t be added with the EF-2000 and Rafale. Now it’s at 13.7 with only 4 fox 3s and a pretty bad A2G loadout.

Oh yeah and they added a premium F-2A at 13.0 also, if this couldn’t get any worse. It’s not unique at all, it is the exact same but without AAM-4.

They also finally added the ASM-1 and 2! Yay, right? No, as of writing this they are completely broken on the dev so I have no clue if they are actually good. Also they aren’t added to the vehicles that actually need and deserve them. Like the T-2/F-1, F-4EJ Kai, etc

Leclerc MSC

They say that it can’t be a premium because it is hard to find information on its armor, yet they added the Ariete as a premium last update, which they REALLY seem to have trouble finding info on (even though we give them good reliable sources).

They also said it’s too unique, well they added RAH-66 as a premium so that’s a lie.

State of Italy TT

I am an Italy main so I will be pretty biased on this part, also why I’m not going over the new AAs because I’m still salty that the UK and Italy didn’t get CAMM.

All they added for us this update is the L1A2, which is immediately outclassed by the OF-40 (I doubt it will be like that for long, they started nerfing OF-40 series mobility last update). They added the MiG-29 Sniper, which I was so glad to see in the leaks. It comes and as expected it is trashed on because it’s Romanian AND on top of that in Italy tech tree (its armament probably got stolen tbh).

A-200C is still broken, and also has an immersion breaking bug for those who play sim (the A-200A camo is displayed whilst in the cockpit). Tornados are a whole other mess, which I would expect because being mainly Italian and British is sure to make the devs know that it must be trash

We still have a top tier AA from when the F-100 was added 💀💀💀.

Ariete war kit weighs more than the PSO kit, which is larger. I would think that would mean it’s denser and has more protection? That’s kinda how stuff works, right? Nah, laws of physics don’t apply to Italy tt.

At least we got Roma. Already it seems that it doesn’t have its concrete/metal composite type armor, and I expect it to get nerfed more when it goes live.

Devs at gaijin

Do they need help? Is there a shortage of people who know how to use blender? Because like they used to be able to add whole new tech trees and new modes like naval every year, now we are lucky if we get 10 new models an update. Also when they do add new models, they arent really needed. They focus on modelling hyper realistic helicopter interiors, new T-34-85 models, etc.

  1. I liked the old T-34-85 model, it looked more like what I see when I think of T-34-85, a kinda mean soviet look

  2. Please model the helicopters if you can, but don’t artificially nerf other helicopters because you are slow to do your job 💀💀💀. If your tail gets just barely hit by a gepard, it’s over, back to repair. But then you get Ka-50 and 52 with the new models, I personally think model-less interior helicopters are worse than ones with the models, because of the aforementioned. At least revert helicopters without interiors to before, they don’t need to be artificially nerfed.

Also with the recent updates ive been seeing more and more bugs escaping the dev servers into the live client, even after multiple people report them on dev server period. Don’t even get me started on the reporting system, it seems the devs don’t really care about it and only selectively fix things that will make non-primary nations weaker and USSR/USA better.

Also speaking of the models, T-34-85 got a silent nerf with the update. Used to be 32 tons without tracked armor, now is 32.2 without tracked armor and 32.4 with. Also what happened to CTP-53 stabilizer or whatever? If you aren’t gonna add the new tank, move the event premium up to rank 4 with its counterpart, makes no sense otherwise.

I have so so much more to say, but the rest has all already been said time and time again. I honestly really love this game, and would hate to see it start going down the path of WoT or WoTB (Also used to love WoTB, it’s pretty dead now and just a money milking machine).

Honestly, I don’t want to see a single new vehicle next update. We need a primary update just DEDICATED to fixing bugs, adding realistic armament, BR decompression, etc etc etc, The more vehicles they add and we ask for without asking for decompression and fixes only makes the game worse. If you got this far thanks for reading my rant

[Should Gaijin fix their game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
10 Likes
2

I was going to argue with a lot of your points but I dont feel like fighting a cope war.

Yes, Gaijin does need to fix some aspects of there business model and game.

However this just screams copium thread.

15 Likes
3

good points but also copium thread but also good points so 😔

1 Like
4

yeah kinda what i felt like writing it

1 Like
5

I for one prefer premiums to not be unique one-offs. It’s better, in my opinion, for premiums to be near copypaste equivalents to TT counterparts so that nothing unique is locked behind a paywall. Unique vehicles that do not fit in the TT should be relegated to events and squadron vehicles.

So your expectations for the F-2A were too high. Before the F-2 was added, it was simply a question of whether Gaijin would artificially buff the F-2 with more Fox-3s (which it doesn’t carry) and/or a HMD (which it does not have).

See above. Locking unique vehicles behind a paywall isn’t cool. I’d much much rather have copypaste premiums than unique vehicles that could easily fill out the TT. The MSC was also very much needed in the TT considering the only other 10.7 TT tank is the Leopard 2A4NL. Now France actually has some semblance of a 10.7 lineup.

While yes, the OTOMATIC isn’t sufficient for top tier, Gaijin stated we can expect only a few SPAAs to come this patch. We got confirmation that they will be getting new SPAA soon, meaning more than likely the first Fall patch.

8 Likes
6

Locking unique vehicles behind a pay wall has never been a problem for gaijin

7

That doesn’t mean it’s a good thing to do…

The Leclerc MSC and premium Leopard 2A4 are great examples of how a unique vehicle should be in the TT and a copypaste vehicle should be a premium.

1 Like
8

couldve atleast been a tank school leclerc, having one or two tanks being top tier premium for almost every nation (L2A4, T80/72) isnt that good. I agree with you, but woulve rather had it been done like the Type 90B for Japan

9

Posts like these force people to defend reality.

3 of those packs are multi-vehicle packs that cost only $30 each, which is a much requested type of premium pack by the War Thunder playerbase. Also 10? new models? There are like 30+ this major update alone.

Mig-29 Sniper is not released and at minimum it has an entirely unique cockpit.

Your post’s F-2A section is pure fiction. The F-2A statement was made in early 2022 when F-16A was added to the game… which is 12.3/12.7, not 13.7 where F-2A sits currently, and not 13.0 where the under-BR’d F-2A premium sits due to BR compression.
Typhoon was not added in 2022, and clearly they wanted F-2A to be a feature of an update by the trailer we got. It’s coming in as one of the best 13.7s.

The Italian ground tree is rather nice and amazing. Great lineups throughout 1.0 - 12.0, I know because I play them.
The Leopard 1A2 is entirely equal to the OF40.
There’s new SPAA in development for Italy as we speak, quite literally confirmed in development.
Sure, Ariete’s armor is sus; and despite that it’s good at top BR due to mobility and ammo.

Advice for the future: If you’re going to critique a product, don’t make up stuff to argue against.
Argue against what’s actually real instead, it makes your post valid.

I believe you have concerns about real things in the game, and I believe you had some in your post even.
I’ll be there in spirit to support those concerns.

2 Likes
10

I second this to further degree, I believe it should apply to BP and event vehicles as well. It sucks I won’t be able to get the Zippo or Churchill crocodile due to the fact I either didn’t have the game then or hadn’t got enough time to grind it.

1 Like
11

A bit of a hollow argument when the 13.7 are all roundly getting stomped by the 14.0… and a bunch of those are getting buffed.
Sure adding it with the F-16s was to early, but waiting this long? I’m not writing it off until I see it on live, but given the stat of top tier air right now I’m not as excited as I would have been if it had been added sometime between the ARH F-15s and the EFs/Raf.

12

Exactly.

IMO unique/prototype vehicles and that kind of stuff as premium vehicles is more of a “cash grab” than “copy paste” vehicles.
Another benefit of copy past premiums, people can learn how similar vehicles in aid tree play. While unique vehicles teach a play style that may or nay not be in the tech tree.

2 Likes
13

They are not getting stomped “by 14.0s” cause that’s not how the matchmaker works nor how minor disparity works.

14

I don’t understand when people complain about premiums when they aren’t unbalanced. Just don’t buy them!

To your point about unique premiums, making the RAH-66 an event vehicle would be an even bigger money grab. When event vics are unique and popular their prices rises fast, after 6 months I’m sure the RAH-66 would be more gate-kept then a regular premium. Not to mention you have to grind a whole month just to unlock it! I think ideally it should have been a tt vehicle, I personally hate it when gaijin makes unique vehicles squadron vehicles like the JF-17 and VT-5 because then you have to pay for it or grind 3 months without getting any benefits of being a premium. (A little bit of my own copium)

The F-2A was claimed to be so powerful because of its radar, it is by far the best sensor in the game and would have been insane to add back when F-16C was introduced. If you don’t like the premium just don’t buy it! And why are you complaining about broken things on the dev server? Nothing is finished there.

I do agree that Italy and UK should have gotten a new AA sytem and I don’t know why gaijin didn’t prioritize nations without good SPAA. The Ariete is unfortunately bad because it was bad irl, not much Gaijin can do about that. You can’t just say “its heavier so it must have proportionally better protection”. Even the Russian buffs source some MoD propaganda as evidence.

2 Likes
15

I would hardly call the difference between a F-16C or SU-27SM and an EF, Raf or F-15E/I “minor”, and that’s before the AIM-120C-5 and MICA buff. While it’s not an insurmountable performance gap, it’s enough to temper my expectations and excitement for the F-2.

16

The AIM-120C5 which is a range extension for the purposes of War Thunder.
Which by the by, AAM-4’s current range is closer to C5 than to B by a significant margin.
Either way the F-15C/E are all supposed to be 14.0.
F-16C is also inferior to the F-2A… whether by a BR changing amount I have no stance for.

@Ayoze101
F-16C was not introduced in 2022 when the statement that the F-2A was too powerful was made, and yes the F-2A is superior to the F-16C.

17

MiG-29 Sniper for Italy is a clear sign that the quota for one vehicle per nation has been fulfilled, so you have to cope with it because being a Premium, still a addition.

As I said before, the MiG-29 Sniper being a addition, should be seen as a good addition, God and Gaijin themselves allowed us, players, to research the Italian tech tree with a least reliable vehicle compared to the F-104S TAF and the AMX A-1A Ghibli.

I’m Afraid the Z-10A will bring a lot of problems regarding balance, the performance of the TY-90 missiles are incredible, can easily catch heat and it’s, almost, impossible to evade.

Leopard 2A4NL OTco being a Premium don’t surprise me, in my opinion, the whole ground BeNeLux addition idea was a waste of time and power, as if retexturing a Leopard 2A4 is hard work. The RAH-66 Comanche is simply money trap, if you want the cool thing, pay for it.

NF-5A is reinforcing the idea of the BeNeLux being a stupid waste of time, a air-to-air combat-only plane is good, at least players just can’t pay to have some advantages regarding close air support as some vehicles is in-game.

Regarding multi-pack vehicles, is good at least on my perspective, it’s cheaper, it has three useful vehicles, should be considered to other tech-trees to replace Starter Packs. It’s a reliable way to new players or older players to start into a tech tree safely, but we all know the eyes aims first to the M1A1 Abrams Click-bait or some other stupid high tier vehicle.

Japan, in real life, is not the best example of working on super effective either in ground and air airplanes, take the F-35B Lightining II as example, it’s an American airplane with American weapons on it, the only chance of competitivity that Japan has in-game is with imported weapons from the United States in the future when Gaijin consider adding such vehicles.

Leclerc MSC is a needed addition to the French tech tree, I’m sure most French-main players and French players themselves didn’t liked how and why BeNeLux were added to their tech tree as me that I don’t like it.

Developers at Gaijin Entertainment specifically War Thunder team is just odd, they work on a profitable game, loyal community and they still be lazy to work properly in-game, neglect the player’s report and all the nonsense we as players have to deal with.

Is so stupid how themselves deal with the game, because themselves, restrict additions to their choice, not player’s suggestions, the whole Suggestion section in the Forums is a example, and when they want to do such ‘hard work’: “Let’s just add this another Leopard 2A4”.

Talking about their models, just to keep you informed, vehicles like FFA P-16, AMX-10 RC and Kamov Ka-50 are example of vehicles that wasn’t even made by a Gaijin intern but bought or brought to the game as part of a community-made model, not to count the Vessels.

We get “We think it’s clear marketing lie.” or “Not a hug.” are example of how lazy the Developers are when it comes to actual work, must be a competition between Gaijin and Mojang to see who are the most lazy to work and still call themselves as Developers. Personally I’m thinking about leaving the game and looking for something where the developers care about the game and community.

1 Like
18

I mean, the greed isn’t with the amount of premium, but the (New) low low cost of AAA games.

TBH, I think gaijin is the reason game makers are boosting their price to 80.00, because they see gaijin doing it with IN GAME PURCHASES and making a load of money, so why not charge it for a full game, and not just an item…

But that’s just a theory.

19

Another ignorant kid who has no idea how much money it costs to employ people and thinks everything should be free.

20

Re: Joseph’s comment

To be fair, most people have no idea how much it costs to run a business and employ people including most small to medium business owners amd entrepreneurs.

I think what most people forget is that the portion of people who purchase things from the gaijin store and ingame is quite small. I would wager that for many people war thunder is just another game they play sometimes.

All of this to say tat once players purchase a vehicle they have it. They don’t keep rebuying (arguably people do) the same premium pack over and over again unless Gaijin rebundles or creates a new pack to that effect.

Generally speaking:

So while the game continues to grow, their running costs and overheads are going to increase. They’re also going to progressively need to shift more of the game to be paid content to keep the lights on.

Many people might think it’s predatory or anti consumer that Gaijin and War Thunder priorities paid content over tech tree vehicles but the reality is that there’s more tech tree vehicles than most people will ever be able to grind and play let alone attempt to. So the odds I think are reasonably in the favour of the consumer. I’m probably biased but most people have a reasonably good choice whether or not to pay. You can think of the free to play model as being an unlimited free trial, you get to enjoy most of the game for free but if you’re playing it enough to feel the progress tighten up and slow down, it’s probably time to consider paying for something. Otherwise if you don’t like war thunder enough to invest in it, then so be it.

War Thunder as we know it can only exist while the game is growing. Gaijin can’t work on War Thunder indefinitely without growth. I don’t know about the success of their other IPs like enlisted or cross out, or that weird space game they have, but I’m fairly certain that the money made from the success of war thunder helped get those other games running.

I can’t really rember what the release cycle was like 5-10 years ago but these days it feels like we’re getting huge content updates every few months, maybe its just better communication and marketing but I feel like the game has a lot to offer.

Last but not least, War Thunder isn’t perfect but I don’t believe the game is broken and needing to be fixed. There’s countless ways the game can be incrementally improved but none of us have any idea what it would cost to develop said imrovements and what the payoff might be. As we’ve seen with features that were rolled back in the past, there’s every chance that new feature can harm the game as much as improve it.

1 Like