It is . It is about the meaning of realism in people’s minds. Some of then talk about realism but dont even now what realistic would be.
For example, Somebody on another thread was complaining about how Gaijin gave the M1 Abrams a 5 second reload time presumably because it has not got DU armour or something. The fact is the crew of an M1 do reload in 5 seconds and under sometimes, it’s an expectation for them to be able to do that.
Point is people think they are experts when they are talking rubbish and Gaijin listen to them and change the game for them.
Sure in that case it is realism vs perceived realism.
But stuff like a tank having the wrong armor thickness, ww2 vehicles fighting cold war tanks.
That has nothing to do with realism and all to do with accuracy.
Still people wan changes on these things on the basis pf realism instead of accuracy.
I mean this thread itself is such an instance. There is nothing about perceived realism here, it’s all about accuracy and has nothing to do with realism.
OP thinking it is about realism just makes him wrong. There is no “his realism” that can apply here since it is so far removed from what realism is.
I think there are other nations now if WT modeled them correctly. China and Sweden have some good modern tanks, maybe others do I just think it was a mistake letting them enter the game at such early BR. It is not something they did with Israel although Israel is a mess at 6BR.
The thing is tho… “focused on game balancing” is that not what the community has been asking for ?
“realistic”
^ Something like that, Gaijin has marketed the game in the past as something like… Battles with Realistic looking Planes, Tanks, and Ships
War Thunder has never been a Real Life simulator, War Thunder is a Game with Realistic components
It never has…
Gaijin will have better access to Russian Documents, so maybe more machines will have better documentation compared to other nations, but the balance of the game is not based off / or around one single nation
As I mentioned, Gaijin will have better access to Russian Documents, so maybe more machines will have better documentation compared to other nations
That does not mean that anything is biased whatsoever, Gaijin takes in Documents from people all over the world, some people have gone to extreme lengths to gain documents and at times at great personal expense
Some members of the community have lived and died doing what they love to help add content, such as the Italian Tech Tree, or the Japanese Ground Forces and many other things
So, Gaijin is not biased, Gaijin does have an open mind and is very player friendly, they have adopted many player made projects as their own to help improve the War Thunder experience
On another note… It is great to see a good Civilized discussion going on, so, Thanks Guys!
Yet - some of the things in other nations that is in the same era as the above mentioned is not there. Something basic as the M289A3 round for USA & UK.
UK Air - SAAF Mirage F1 AZ/BZ/CZ, Mirage 3, Atlas Cheetah (all decommissioned, all public info).
UK Boxer IFV
Quick things from the top of my head while I am sitting on a call and reading some replies.
Always nice seeing people being civil however generally it’s clear the WT community will always go on and beyond to get what is needed. Even for a very obscure vehicle. Thumbs up
Yes, but the standards of which russian sourses and western sources in particullar are used, differ. Also systematic errors, like assuming, that US missile guidance works exactly the same as UdSSR guidance.
And therefore declining equally valid souces.
Yes, I ment the “practices of implementing […] are biased” which includes more than access to sources.
Aslo the selection which vehicles and munitions get implemented. And this includes things like the R27 ER from the early 1990’s, as an “equal” opponent to the AIM 7 M, from 1982. Even though only minor better variants of the AIM 7 exist, that would be more on par, in performance and intoductory date. Also not caring about indroduction, and trying to see everything balanced in a 1 dimensional matchmaker has its biases, like strike jets or bombers being useless in the tdm-like matches we have near top tier.
Which is not the point.
Gaijin is biased (and mentioned above, more esplanation later, if required), but I don’t say, that they don’t introduce player made projects. Also there is selection bias here. There are loads of player projects/ideas and other developer/community communications, that were declined and often for no reason (like the Teamspeak Event between YouTubers and Devs, where everyone, including the translators showed up, but the Devs, years ago). Like ideas how to fix bomber gameplay, which aren’t even commented on.
Importantly, I want to restate, that I don’t think that this bias has a purpose in making anything stronger than something else. But especially with the newest explanations regarding MANPADS, they show that their process of selecting sources and finding out the most objectively true sources/dats, has flaws, and these flaws lead to systematic errors, which results in a bias for some party.
Be it the autoloaders, where the loader basically doesn’t matter, but no autoloader damage is implemented, or the mentioned better access to russian sources.
This is a bias, but don’t mix up bias, and purposly making something better, over something else.
What about the Fox 1 & Fox 2 comparison for NATO VS USSR war birds?
I mean, do you really want us to go into deep detail on how Gaijin holds the USSR tech tree by the hand to just be able to make them compete cause they under perform in game even by paper (manual) design?
The Moment they made a small russian WWII truck with a AA gun on the open back able to withstand Tank shells AND MG Fire and even being able to kill the German Tank then… that was the moment i said goodbye to the idea of realism. And that was long ago.
I had fun with the little ZIS 12 Truck before, even ( or because ) if i knew i would be dead the moment a tank gets me… that was realistic, added to the suspense of not getting hit at all and being covered… you know, adrenaline. Now… meh. So boring, did not touch that for years. Who drives a ZiS-12 today also hits little kids on the street to feel great.
All other “balance achievements”… during the years, removing the large maps, sniping spots etc… led to a game that is now neither balanced NOR realistic… i stopped playing, uninstalled the game then a few months ago because i needed more space on the HD and i still keep checking in the forum from time to time if they maybe changed it back… but they dont seem to.
realism, in everything, also gear and Maps, once was the big Plus that set War thunder apart from the rest of similar Games. That is gone now. Whoever likes that… have fun spending meaningless maximum 10 Minutes grinding away in knife fights.
Lol did anyone notice until now that the game isn’t realistic lol go to real life and wake up this game will never be real cuz it’s a wtf game lul omg sus
Not what i said. Realism even in art isn’t just about how things look. That’s only true for purely visual media.
Realism means that it is represented according to the laws of physics. As long as it is physically possible to be the way it is represented in game, it is to be considered realistic. But it doesn’t mean it’s just looks.
As an example tank guns phasing through objects like buildings breaks physics and is not realistic. A t-34 fighting a leopard 2 does not break the laws of physics and is realistic (although historically nonsense). Since you actually can take a t-34 from a museum and shoot it with a leopard 2.
But it isn’t just looks… Not in an interactive medium. Then the interactions also need to follow physics.
But this is due to the fact that a “real life Simulator” is almost a ridiculous request. That would mean you need to model digestion, Evolution, well pretty much everything.
A simulation is always a simulation of something.
A flight simulator simulates flight (obviously) without saying what is being simulated the word simulator makes no sense. A real life simulation is way to broad a term and seems like a cop out.
Air SB IS(!) A flight simulator. Sadly ground SB isn’t a tank operating simulator.
But lineups shouldn’t habe any bearing on whether something is a tank simulation or not.
I’ve honestly never looked at this game as being realistic. A quick googling of almost any tank lets you find a lot of details left out by Gaijin in the name of balance.
War Thunder was never that realistic and the game probably won’t be 1:1 to real-life mechanics. It’s just a game based on realism but it will never be the same as real life.