I do have newer stuff but when I did it I was like 14 years old and didn’t really know what it would have for effects, years later I try to play Arma and have a similar issue with BattleEye and I am just worried that I will not be able to play the game anymore.
Were you using the same acc?(Steam or launcher or whatever) Did you change the whole computer out or just some parts?
They could push it server-side and stay away from my property and personal data.
They could engage in very public audits regularly.
They could open-source what it does so people can audit them at any time.
VAC is an example that has far better and more consumer friendly approach to cheating - it has a significant portion of its functionality server-side and has only very limited computer access.
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Same Steam account but a completely different PC. I think it might just be Steam account got a Global ban then but maybe since I use Gaijin account linked to steam it should hopefully be fine
Problem when you start letting people know how your AC works, its over.
And if someone has an external loader for cheats? What then?
See Quote 1.
Please show me their audits for their anti cheat, which you are requesting from Battleye.
Please let me know what Valve shares about VAC to the public.
Gaben VAC Link
take a sec and read this all the way through
I’de like to preface this by saying Im impressed the devs are going through the minimal effort required to keep Linux support when switching, which almost never happens when other games do this. I honestly applaud this. At least gives some hope this will be implemented better than others as these really depend on how the devs implement these things, that being said;
I have some experience in these things, upgrading from EAC to BE is really just like going from an off brand bandaid to on brand, for a bullet wound. The cheat/anti-cheat war has really kicked off with the rise of p2c (pay to cheat) services and has really shown client-side anti-cheat to not only be a privacy risk, but wholly ineffectual at combating cheating. The issue is that these programs really only look for hashes or strings known to be malicious (pathetically easily to bypass) or known malicious entryways like dll injection. At the end of the day its rather easily to completely make a cheat undetectable to these driver and kernel client anti-cheats.
To put that word wall out of the way, this is to say I feel this is misguided, server-side anticheat is the future out of necessity, barring edge cases it’s not something a normal user can exploit to cheat when implemented correctly, Im simply concerned that efforts (and by extension wasted money) is going towards an already outdated solution when it could be put towards a server-side solution.
My question for Stona is that are we going to see anything regarding a server-side anticheat being developed or implemented?
An external loader or a DMA device would be useful for defeating kernel CLIENT-SIDE anticheat, it would be rather pointless for a serverside. As serverside would be checking other things.
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Yep. Spoke about that earlier with Ricochet.
You can also have Battleye on the server, but its is not a full-fledged dedicated one, so might not be as good.
Give it time. :/ They will always be coming out with ways to cheat, its a massive industry.
Security through obscurity is not a thing.
Oh hey, the company actually reacted to community concerns and provided details on what occured in a respectful and concise manner.
It also did not do anything beyond check for whether the computer made connections to some specific servers unlike the kind of mess other anti-cheats do.
This however is an issue. The EU should take a stricter measure to Valve about this as it should to all other software companies.
I do want to note the clear stance Valve had taken against the likes of Riot Games’ approach to anti-cheats:
While you MAY sell your game on the Steam store front, you must make it abundantly clear it is a pseudo-malware/spyware with kernel level access.
There’s another option that came to my mind:
- Make it blatantly clear when BattleEye is currently running, clearly marking any and all of its processes and network activity. Make it so you don’t need something like WMIC process list to confirm it was properly shut down.
This can help at least ensure that this thing is only doing things when the game is running and online and it can be verified to only be doing things during that time.
This helps make sure it only has access to the appropriate compartmentalized data on the computer.
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Uh…it is very much a real thing…
you’ll see that ALONE STO isn’t that effective, but combined with everything else, its essential.
How is this any different from what Battleye has on their website? If they have a detection, they grab that data. Valve did the exact same thing? One could argue that grabbing info from your DNS is a massive breach of privacy, but it seems that everyone (vast generalization) is OK when Valve would do it, but not other ACs.
Again, no anti-cheat developer is ever going to show you how their AC works, unless its a wild situation. Once you start letting people know even the smallest bits of how your AC works, they will develop new ways to bypass it. The best way, which most if not all ACs take, is security through obscurity. If no one knows how your AC works, they won’t know how to bypass it.
There’s a massive tradeoff with having high-security and high-trust, and it puts you into a horrible paradox of
Showing how AC works to prove it doesn’t spy.
Cheat Devs now know how you run the AC, and develop ways to bypass.
Endless cycle.
If you don’t show how your AC works, it takes a entirely different skillset to breakdown an AC and then figure out how to bypass there.
@Stona_WT Will it also be available for the Mac version?
I think it’s good that it’s implemented to make the game cleaner.
Salu2
transition includes Mac and Linux :D
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Why should there be any processes running on my computer I did not authorize and have awareness of?
Obviously, the operating system itself has a lot of built-in, background processes but on systems you compile yourself - you have the ability to control that and either audit it yourself, or let others you trust to do so for you instead.
Permissions and access should be absolutely minimal - in fact, less than minimal - until the user gave their authorization for more and such an authorization should only be considered temporary.
If a software is running, it should make itself blatantly known and it should only run while observed.
- Fast dynamic and permanent scanning of the player’s system in user- and kernel-mode using innovative, sophisticated specific and heuristic/generic detection and cheat analysis routines for maximum effectivenes
Why can Valve Anti Cheat function without accessing the kernel?
Fortunately it does seem like Warthunder and BattleEye runs on linux and linux disables the kernel aspects with proton compatibility mode.
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Those come with any program you will ever download, every laptop you ever buy from the store (unless you instantly reimage it). They all come with processes that run without your knowledge.
True, but we are not talking about our personal property. We do not have the ability to pick and choose what processes War Thunder uses or what EAC used, and nor should we. You “pay” for the license to use the product, not own it.
While I don’t disagree, this is why ACs have progressed as far as they have. At this point with ACs, they have to check other processes, as cheat devs have gotten far better over time. Eventually, next-gen server ACs like what was said above might help, but they’ll find a way past that, (see GTAV ******* menu before it got hacked. You had full control over their servers, and could stop R* admins from even joining)
I think valve is a massive unicorn in this case. They have an incredible amount of data/money/experience and market in order to gain the data needed to NOT run a kernel level AC.
When starting my game with BattlEye enabled, my SpeedFan (or potentially other hardware-related) software stops working. Please fix it!
BattlEye is blocking certain software that is using kernel drivers which contain known security issues that can be exploited by cheats. We cannot support such software and therefore cannot provide a fix. Please ensure that you are using the latest version of such software or, if there is no newer version available, contact the developer/vendor of the software to notify them of the problem.
Talk about invasive.
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Guess the question I should ask,
Do you want an anti-cheat that stand a chance against cheaters? Yes it might be invasive, but it follows the same standards as other Industry-Wide ACs.
OR
Do you want the same AC that doesn’t do “anything” against cheaters, and keep it “non-invasive?”
Same situation when Riot came out with Vanguard.
Hi!
AFAIK Virtual Machines are not supported (and not allowed) when using BE, sorry.
Thank you for your reply Stona.
I know if it’s been announced, that there is no reverting it at this point. Especially for something like my specific use case. All I ask is that you please pass along my concerns regarding the use of BattleEye. Specifically regarding its ineffectiveness in limiting or removing hacking from other games, as I know that its implimentation did nothing to fix the rampant cheating in Escape from Tarkov.
Gaijin and War Thunder owe me nothing, and I have truly loved this game for the past 9 years. That said, I cannot justify building a new rig, or tearing down my setup, solely for one game.
EDIT - added the blockquote
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I want an anti-cheat that only interacts with the software I am currently using and does not interfere with my computer outside of the software that is currently active.
I am very much not a fan of modern software trends that do not respect the fact that the user is the owner of their computer and limit the ability to tinker and interact with it (Windows in general is a pain).
I rather deal with cheaters than risk being forced to reinstall my operating system to flush out undesirable software or move my gaming over to my linux partition to disable certain features. I like compartmentalization - Linux for work/school and administration, windows for gaming.
The only cheat I can see at all being relevant anyhow in air sim is people adding markers as if it was ARB. While very annoying, it’s not game breaking to deal with.
Oh, and botters. Botters that automatically take off, drop bombs and suicide to farm points during events to sell the vehicle.
First one may warrant better anti-cheats, second one is entirely behaviour based that I feel could be flagged server-side for manual review. It’s not like there’s that many sim players anyway.
I did stop playing League when they moved it to LoL as well
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Then I’m afraid you want a non-functioning AC…
I agree with you, but I’ve come to terms with it, and like you said above, there are ways around certain things about it.
Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever noticed a cheater, but n=1, but I can understand why Gaijin would want the better (we’ll see) AC.
Hm of course it’s great if something is done against cheaters but with the amount of money and time that many have put into this game I find it problematic if you just stand up and say “If you don’t cheat you won’t be banned” because a quick Google search shows that there are false positives, even with common software that is used by many gamers and is part of some hardware.
I think there should be a clear whitelist for programs such as Logitech GHub, nVidia Experience, MSI AfterBurner, etc. so that gamers can inform themselves in advance when buying hardware and feel safe.
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With EAC, I personally have never encountered any cheaters. They changing to a new anti-cheat to seek better game protection is good, but is that anti-cheat “good” though?
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