It would be very fun to have the r27EA. I guess it still has a datalink? Does maintaining a hard lock on the enemy help guiding an ARH missile?
Obviously its better than TWS but i mean after the missile goes “pitbull”. Does the missile gain any info from a hard locked target or is it completely useless after the missile goes “pitbull”
I suppose it could be used to help it differentiate from countermeasures and other things, or to lock the correct target… or even to drop lock upon realization it is a friendly or something. I think the R-27’s older datalink is not capable of any of these, though.
You’d have to look into the latest R-77-1’s capabilities to understand what the R-27EA might have potentially gained in terms of features.
Fixed image links - note that performance data is outdated.
Does anyone have any info on how the R-27R’s datalink works?
I’ve heard its integrated with the SARH seeker. It might be one-way only? And does it read a signal from the guiding radar?
And, if that is the case, wouldn’t it need to be within the guiding radar’s beam to receive the data (hence possibly why it doesn’t loft?)
(MFW I realize I posted the same question 3 months ago)
There is no data sent back from the missile, only to it.
If the launch is within the distance that the missile’s seeker is able to lock, it behaves just like your usual SARH missile.
If it is past that but within around 1.5x of that (or 1.3, I don’t remember), Missile uses INS to fly intercept towards where the target is projected to be until it is able to lock the missile with its own seeker.
If it is past all the above (more than 1.5x the distance the missile can lock the target), the missile flies intercept like described above, except now, the fighter will also calculate any deviations from the projected course of the target and send that info to the missile as corrections.
When the missile flies with INS and/or with “Data link”, it positions its seeker to look at where it thinks the target will be (this info is calculated by the fighters weapons computer) around the time it gets within range
бортовой комплекс САМОЛЕТОВОЖДЕНИЯ, ПРИЦЕЛИВАНИЯ И УПРАВЛЕНИЯ ВООРУЖЕНИЕМ САМОЛЕТА МиГ-29Б (СУВ-29Э и сопрягаемые системы
Check this. Its a bit long and you’ll need to use yandex.
It’s one way only. Sidelobes should give out enough power.
It doesn’t loft due to how it’s programmed. It’ll would conflict aswell with the seekerhead. Before it get’s launched, the receiver antenna gets locked in place to aim at the direction where the target is expected to be when the missile reaches certain distance from the target. If you make it loft, it would(should as ofc all guidance is magically made up ingame) correct itself. A second problem would arise from the antenna not pointing where the target will be. And if you make it loft, energy from sidelobes may not be enough.
If you lose lock(or its dropped), the radar itself stops the illumination mode. Relocking is not possible and the missile is trashed
The corrections are sent through a 7bit barker code(1s and 0s) through a carrier Continuous wave + 208/228kHz depending on the signals
Thank you much!
A cursory google-translated view seems to suggest then that the datalink is heavily overperforming in-game?
It seems that the system can’t compensate for losing the lock (the math would be spoiled, and thus the commands sent to the missile from the launching aircraft would be totally incorrect in navigating it)
Additionally, it seems that “manual lofting” may cause guidance problems in that the missile might stop receiving guidance updates from the launching aircraft for a substantial amount of time until it re-intercepts the radar beam, again throwing off the math and spoiling the tracking
And given you state the data is transmitted via a CW (I think its the same beam which the seeker uses to navigate to target?) it shouldn’t be able to update its datalink via TWS either?
Though, I certainly might be wrong, I’m pretty much clueless in this regard and I’m reading through google translate.
Anyway Its a pretty interesting way to do the datalink (and I think its likely very similar to the AIM-54)
R-27 data is transmitted from main lobe not sidelobes iirc the datalink is not the same as later more complex missiles such as AIM-7P, AMRAAM, R-77, etc.
Isn’t the sidelobe just energy not going the direction the antenna intends? AFAIK every antenna has it to some degree including the CW emitter
Also, wouldn’t it be important for the R-27 to get signal at all stages of flight, just incase the target maneuvers?
@MiG_23M your research into the R-27ER is terrible. You cannot even get the warhead weight right. Its 39kg.
Top speed is 4.5 in your own sources multiple times
This is terrible research… Where did you get these links?
Also, another link you sourced states only the N019M Topaz is equipped to cooperate with the R-27ER. This is true.
You also had zero clue that Ukraine operates & sells their own domestic version of the R-27ER. They do not produce Russian spec R-27ERs.
This is proven to be false you are following Ukrainian propaganda. Because they do not want to admit their missile is a failure.
Yes, to customers using Russian radars… And it’s totally compatible. Crazy.
The thread has not been updated aside from pictures using public sources that were collected en-mass prior to the MAI source & parents being found or shared. I haven’t made any claim that these statistics from the thread are true but I did share all of the links I found when doing the research. You’d be hard pressed to find more useful information from any other available sources.
So no, the research was not poor. It is a fairly decent collection of sites and sources from which to paint a picture of something. Certainly, having 60+ websites and various other sources is better than simply making stuff up as you have.
So I’ll ask again… What changed on the R-27ER that precludes it’s use on the N019 when the R-27R (sharing all parts besides motor) is perfectly fine?
Does the R-27ER have any updated guidance compared to the standard R-27?
If so, I suppose it might be possible that the fire control system may not have been properly configured to account for this, and thus the guidance simulations being performed onboard the launching aircraft may be inaccurate and cause the Datalink to transmit incorrect corrections to the missile.
AFAIR, the corrections are not instructions altering the flight path, but rather updates to the positions and velocity of the target, which the missile then computes the new trajectory for
This doesn’t happen with YAK-141 manual lofting, but it happened to me today with MiG-29SMT manual lofting
Yep
Its not done in TWS as in reality the position error is ±8km. As you saw the information needs to be highly accurate.
It’s CW, the document stated monochromatic which is by definition a CW
Its not an emitter. Its the main antenna. When you fire the missile, the radar interleaves between pulsed for tracking(20ms) and CW for guidance(30ms). If lock is dropped, and you immediately relock, it won’t return to this mode as you can see. But it does ingame…
The antenna is stabilized up to 90°. You can not roll more than 90° that as lock will be simply dropped. OFC you can do 360° rolls without issue in game, who would’ve thought…
MiG-29 120 deg.In game 90
Not gimbal limit, aileron roll and maintain lock limit.
What does the EM offer over the ER? (How big were the improvements and in what aspects? I’ve only seen about a modified seeker and not much else)
I’m gonna see if I can get a bug report for this. It seems the ‘reconnect datalink’ line is ahistorical.