VEXTRA 105 - Still not EXTRAordinary

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
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And the reason why this is such a big deal is if you look in protection analysis, although it may not be the most accurate it gives us a good idea of things, the vextra with 350mm of pen compared to something like DM33 with 408mm of pen, although its not that big of a difference in numbers, the performance is very much noticable when fighting 10.0 russian tanks at 700m+, (im using russia as thats the most notirious 10.0 lineup you’ll likely face)[img]

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Edit: The difference in penetration becomes even more apparent at 1000m

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69

Only gets better against T80UD.

(This is sarcasm, it gets much less fun)

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the T-80UD and the T-72B 1989 changes the story a lot, DM33 cant go through that either even in closer range, but i think with the ZLT-11 you can pen the T-80UD and 1989 in the lower part of the UFP, you might have the fact check this but the point still stankds.

Id rather fight T-80Us/contact-5 with 400mm+ of pen than with 350mm of pen

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Don’t know if you can reliably get the breech with less. But I also haven’t fought them with less in a long while.

Regardless, proper round for vextra would make it a lot more manageable.

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yes, and just tested this but with a higher penning 105mm dart like the one found on the ZLT-11, you can pen the UD’s UFP through either the known weakspots (no shit) or a bit below the drivers port

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Mainly what I was trying to point to, but I am very tired. It is 0430.

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Thing is that due to the fact some French Vehicles are either overtiered or undertiered by limiting their armaments in French Tree we tend to have multiple BR lineups as a standard as French Players so it’d have way more interest to build a 10.0-10.3 lineup with Vextra, AMX 40, AMX 32,SEM… Than building a purely 9.7 lineup out of it + It doesn’t change anything to the fact some 9.7 vehicles of other tree have way better ammo and it doesn’t seem to be an issue to the devs to leave them be 9.3/9.7 so i don’t see why VEXTRA should be monitored when it could get put to 10.0 or left at 9.7 with OFL 105 F2 APFSDS. It’s gaijin fault for never doing the right things at the right time that we lack a good 10.0-11.0 lineup. Many proto Leclercs and Variants of AMX 30 as well as a ton of light vehicles have been suggested by various members of the community and gaijin rather would give us vehicles in place where lineups where already good(M36, M26, MARS 15) are a few example of additions that could instead have been Stabilized AMX 10RC, ERC90 sagaie, Prototype Leclercs… Yeah devs are doing quite okay with the French air Tree lately but they never cared a bit for the ground tree… There is needed fixes that are still rotting away in gaijin bug report section after 2 or 3 years. Gaijin manages ground vehicles really bad for nations outside of USSR, US and Germany and these are facts.

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75

understandable, go to bed man xd

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Hello @Smin1080p

Thanks for your answer.

1. About the Devs’ wish to create a 9.7 line-up :
We understand the Devs’ choice to provide France for a line-up at 9.7. But the truth is, there is no 9.7 line-up as of right now. Only the VEXTRA (which everyone agrees doesn’t belong here) and the AMX-40 are placed at 9.7 right now, as the VBCI-2 is definitely not 9.7 worthy. I know it because I own the VBCI-2. And while it is a quirky little IFV, it is by no means competitive at 9.7.

→ 2 vehicles do not make up a line-up.

The whole point of this post was to convince the Devs to give France a 10.0 or 10.3 line-up instead of a 9.7 one.

Why a 10.0/10.3 line-up instead of a 9.7 one ?

Because 10.0 means Tiger HAP and Jaguar A, while 10.3 means Super Etendard.
These vehicles are among France’s most iconic vehicles for that period and the VEXTRA being a light tank, France players want to be able to use the VEXTRA along with CAS.
Also because it would finally give the Devs a reason to fix the Roland 1’s elevation … and put it at the same BR as the FlakRakPz 1 at BR 10.3.

Let’s make a quick comparison.

On one hand, the only credible line-up we get at 9.7 is as follows :

  • VEXTRA (light tank) ;
  • AMX-40 (MBT) ;
  • Roland 1 (SPAA, but with shockingly low and frustrating elevation limits).

Or, if the Devs get around the idea of giving a 10.0/10.3 line-up :

  • VEXTRA (light tank) ;
  • AMX-40 (MBT) ;
  • Tiger HAP (helicopter) ;
  • Super Etendard ;
  • Jaguar A (CAS)
  • Roland 1 (SPAA, but with the correct elevation limits).

→ This is what a REAL line-up looks like. There is no point in creating a 9.7 line-up if there all the appealing support vehicles are positioned a BR or two above.

2. When are the other vehicles coming for 9.7 ?

@Smin1080p, it’s been a little over 4 years since the Leclerc has been added (“Imperial Navy” major update released on May 29th 2019). You have been telling us about “fleshing out” this BR bracket for 4 years. And in 4 years, the only 9.7 vehicle we received was the VBCI-2 (a premium vehicle).

How long until we get the 9.7 vehicles you keep telling us about ?

In 4 years the Devs only added one 9.7 vehicle. How many more years until we get other vehicles to accompany the AMX-40 ? Two years ? Perhaps three ? Until then, the VEXTRA 105 will be wasted at 9.7. If the Devs want to add other vehicles at that BR : fine. But they shouldn’t artificially gimp a vehicle because a BR is lacking.

For these reasons, we plead the Devs to reconsider.

In conclusion …

The engagement and enthusiasm of France’s community has been exceptional around the VEXTRA 105, whether it comes to the forums discussions or the sheer amount of research and bug reporting that was done for the vehicle.
Let’s not let all these efforts go down the drain.
How will France players take it if they remain once again ignored, all to flesh out a line-up around a premium vehicle ?

For these reasons, we plead the Devs to reconsider.

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is this EBRC jaguar currently in the room with us?

dont get me wrong id be happy to see it, but gaijin is dragging their feet on it as much as possible

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its crazy to think the leclerc azur was the first 9.7+ tank in what 3 years

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tbf for a 9.7 lineup the AMX-30 Super does pretty well and you can take the gazelle with you

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then i would rather just play 9.3 with super, amx 32s, santal, and gazelle

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I’m sorry but, it really feels like an insult the way you straight up tell us that we should pay for a premium vehicle to properly play France as you suggest us to use the vbci in our lineup.

And for the second part is there a known time period for when we will have more informations about it same for the new vehicles in this br range, we hear a lot about it but there still isn’t any new one ?

Because as you see nobody wants the vextra to stay this low and it’s not the first time we have to wait months, years before something ever get fixed (we are still waiting for many things that had propers issues and were accepted and are not now fixed)

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Hey.

Nobody is suggesting you must purchase the VBCI. That was defiantly not the point there. The Vextra and AMX-40 can be used as a combo themselves or with other vehicles around them too. Such as the Roland and other 9.3 tanks too.

The Vextra itself is the first of these. First to bolster the 9.7 area and with the potential to move later if/as/when required. Others will indeed follow in future updates, which widen these areas more.

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For my first part i didn’t worded it well i agree, i mean that there was nearly no choice in what you suggested and that was the problem, sorry.

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Ah yes, 360mm pen “very competitive” compared to 408mm for DM33, 430mm for DM63, 522mm for M900 and 580mm for 3BM60. All these rounds are on 9.7/10.0 BR

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I still don’t understand why gaijin is trying so hard to not listen to the community. I don’t even play France, but I am still very disappointed the way they handle this situation. First, they overpopulated 10.0-10.3 BR with bunch of premiums thus making 9.3 and 9.7 BRs literally pointless as most of the time they have to be food of juicy premiums and now one of the most anticipated vehicles of France lands directly into that dark BR range. Well done Gaijin, you’re doing great with your aim to disappoint us

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Please at least consider giving it OFL 105 F2. A lineup doesn’t mean much when you constantly face 10.0 and 10.3 anyways, this means T-80UDs, Leopard 2A4s, Object 292s, and much more that are extremely difficult to deal with. Not to mention there are similar BR’d vehicles like the Type 16 and Rooikat 105 that have better ammunition, but aren’t gimped for the sake of a lineup.

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I have to say, I am extremely happy with the addition of the VEXTRA, but I am very saddened by the idea of putting it at 9.7 with an anemic round. While I understand the idea of « creating lineup », we also need to consider what those lineups are.
The free to play 9.7 lineup consist of the AMX 40, which could very well go up to 10.0-10.3 if the armor was finally fixed (the turret composite was removed early in its introduction for no apparent reason), and if the assisted loader meant gaijin accepted to reduce its reload.
With the addition of the vextra, a fixed Roland, and finally getting back the access to 10.3 aircraft (which is the lowest you get flares/chaff with France), that would make a compelling free to play lineup.
Why do I believe the 9.7 lineup isn’t a great idea ?

  • the matchmaking is horrendous. As of today, while grinding it with my 9.7 VBCI, above 80-90% of my games have been 10.0+, with at least 70% of them being 10.3+. The 9.7 BR (along the 9.3) is stupidly balanced due to the overwhelming presence of 10.0-10.3 premiums.
  • the lower vehicles (9.3) aren’t very great. AMX 32 (and especially the 105) are mediocre at best, lacking mobility, armor and gun handling, only having a decent firepower (with a mediocre reload). The SANTAL, with the mistral is still about as useless as a SAM can be. And we’ve made a circle back. The issue of bringing 9.3 vehicles is worsen by the uptiers mentioned above. IMO, things like the AMX32-105 have no reason to face things like Leo 2A4s.

As for the argument of the vehicle being playable at top tier with the Leclerc, I can only say I think this is a very bad argument at best, and just making fun of us at worst (which I know is not what you intend to say, but still make it look like it). Having less than 400mm of pen at top tier is simply a joke. The OFL 120 F1 already struggles to make meaningful damage after penetration, so what is there to say about something doing less than 370mm ? Sure, the VEXTRA is fast. But that’s about it. 6.7s reload, against MBTs that do 6.0 at worst with their 120mm is so stupidly balanced I can’t start to think about how people believe it’s a good idea.
Is it because, it’s a French stabilized vehicle so of course it’s top tier usable ? That’s not how it works. Until I see people playing other nations bringing their 9.7 vehicles at 12.7 (A FULL 3.0 UPTIER) and do somewhat okay, I’ll just call that a skill issue of making French mains work harder than other nations just so that they can have interesting lineups (Char 25t cough cough)

In conclusion, in my opinion, even a lonely VEXTRA at 10.3 (ground) would be sufficiently good to hold itself, especially with the advantage of getting both CAS and anti CAS planes back.
The addition of a Roland with fixed elevation angle and AMX 40 with reworked armor would make it a better 10.3 lineup than the current 9.7 lineup that they create.

I am a fan of the vehicle, and am very happy to see it added. But you probably won’t see me bothering to play it anytime soon without a better round.

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