Valentine XI increases BR from 2.7 to 3.0

[O_Warrior0]

@Hetaeron

But wouldn’t you like to see it for what it is historically? (Putting it as a heavy tank would reflect the purpose for which the British built it.) I’ve always pushed for a game as historically realistic as possible rather than a game of total fantasy.

No, unless you can prove it.

@Hetaeron

When the VK 3002 was produced, its manufacturers (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg) classified it as a medium tank, not a heavy tank. We follow what the tank manufacturer says, not what you like to hear.

The Valentine XI was classified as an infantry tank, so we can make it an infantry tank.

@Hetaeron

When the VK 3002 was produced, its manufacturers (Maschinenfabrik Augsburg-Nürnberg) classified it as a medium tank, not a heavy tank. We follow what the tank manufacturer says, not what you like to hear.

@Hetaeron

Yes, I understand that you will not accept anything that is not in line with what you say.

So you indeed can’t prove it with a source? Or are you just lazy too?

It is classified as an infantry tank.

Valentine - The Tank Museum

[Hetaeron]

If you’d read, you’d have noticed that the argument has evolved. You’re a prime example of someone who only uses sources that suit you and completely ignores those that contradict you. That’s why I told you to reread the comments:

@Hetaeron

The player KillaKiwi informed me that the Valentine XI, which theoretically should be a heavy tank … Well, let’s make it official, remove its artillery and put it as a heavy tank at BR 2.7… But as long as it is a medium tank, it should not have the same characteristics as a heavy tank.

@Hetaeron

Just follow KillaKiwi’s advice and correctly classify the tank as a heavy tank… Does that bother you that much? (Rhetorical question, obviously, since you haven’t accepted any of my solutions and are just complaining)

@Hetaeron

the British actually classified it as a heavy tank which would make the modification historically realistic too

@Hetaeron

Apparently, historically, it should be a heavy tank. Does this fact have some weight, or do you want to ignore it for your own convenience? As you see, your perspective is completely distorted, and you’ve already demonstrated this in the thread, ignoring valid arguments.

@Hetaeron

What seems strange to me is that it behaves like a heavy tank despite Gaijin mistakenly classifying it as a medium tank… Apparently the English built it to be a heavy tank,so we could also classify it as such by keeping it at BR 2.7.

@Hetaeron

Read the entire speech from beginning to end and you will understand… But if you want a summary, it seems that the British created the Valentine Xi with the aim of it being a heavy tank:

It has also been written several times that, in theory, the British had historically designed it to perform the task of a heavy tank, thanks to the comments of KillaKiwi and Josephs_Piano who shed light on the topic by literally informing everyone that it is a heavy tank.

[markimash]

The crazy part in all of this is that changing it to a heavy wont change your issue which started this whole thread.

At least it will have the correct marker?

[O_Warrior0]

@Hetaeron

It has also been written several times that, in theory, the British had historically designed it to perform the task of a heavy tank, thanks to the comments of KillaKiwi and Josephs_Piano who shed light on the topic by literally informing everyone that it is a heavy tank.

@KillaKiwi @Josephs_Piano Would you mind kindly giving me the sources so I am able to read them? And don’t give me Wikipedia please.

[O_Warrior0]

@Hetaeron

If you’d read, you’d have noticed that the argument has evolved. You’re a prime example of someone who only uses sources that suit you and completely ignores those that contradict you. That’s why I told you to reread the comments:

Alr so since you trust the comment more then history then I can simply say “Valentine XI is classified as an infantry tank, so it should be an infantry tank.”

[markimash]

@O_Warrior0

“Valentine XI is classified as an infantry tank, so it should be an infantry tank.”

To be fair, the matilda is also an infantry tank. I suppose the idea is that infantry tanks should be in the same type.

Though that will also have to be looked at for the cruiser tanks too. Some are light and others are medium

[O_Warrior0]

Let’s get this more accurate so the first day you post it… it was because of it frontal armour being so thick that the worst tank possible can’t penetrate it from the front. What are you thinking? It a goddamn build for breaking through the frontline, and it must survive heavy hits from the front. Of course the armour has to be thick!!!

I still don’t get why do you have to use the worst tank possible to compare it? I don’t get it. Why?

[O_Warrior0]

I think gaijin can create more type of tanks like instead of only. Heavy tank, Medium tank, Light tank and tank destroyers. There are plenty more to be added. Look at air – how many types they got…

[markimash]

@O_Warrior0

I still don’t get why do you have to use the worst tank possible to compare it? I don’t get it. Why?

I have a theory.

He came across a valentine head on, couldnt pen and decided to reverse and hide, then the valentine got him with arty.

Im not sure why else he would be so focused on it losing arty support.

[O_Warrior0]

@markimash

I have a theory.

He came across a valentine head on, couldnt pen and decided to reverse and hide, then the valentine got him with arty.

Im not sure why else he would be so focused on it losing arty support.

Maybe. That’s why he got so much beef with it.

[markimash]

Its my guess because he has stated that he was fine with it remaining at 2.7 if it lost the arty.
If the armor was the problem, the label change does nothing.

[O_Warrior0]

I believe the best way to solve the issue is to drop the BR of the M14/41 to 2.0… remvoing the artilitery from valentine XI will change almost nothing. Moving it up in BR it gonna became useless.

[KillaKiwi]

Yeah Gaijin just makes them whatever they want them to be.

But it’s Gaijin, so thinks need to be as inconsistent as possible 😂

[TheDudesRug]

Jesus. Who cares if a tank acts like a medium or heavy. It’s about capability. Imagine having this debate about the 279…

… is it a heavy?
… is it a medium?
… is it a MBT?
… is it a freakin UFO?

[KillaKiwi]

It’s obviously a heavy UFO

[Ghostmaxi]

@hjnbnb

Panzer IV C which it CANNOT see, 80mm penetration with HEAT, perhaps even more pen if it gets the better HEAT shell (I dont actually remember but I think it does)

It doesnt, but currently the Gr.38 HL/B has the wrong pen anyway, it shouldnt be 80mm, but 87mm.

[Hetaeron]

Your theory is incorrect. It bothers me that the vehicles have been classified incorrectly and are not being used for their actual purpose for which they were created.

Furthermore, if they fix this tank, it will set a precedent… which would force Gaijin to change the classification of many other vehicles that are incorrectly classified in the game, finally making the game more consistent.

[markimash]

@Hetaeron

Your theory is incorrect. It bothers me that the vehicles have been classified incorrectly and are not being used for their actual purpose for which they were created.

Could you please quote where you mention its irl classification prior to the other guy saying it?

@Hetaeron

Furthermore, if they fix this tank, it will set a precedent… which would force Gaijin to change the classification of many other vehicles that are incorrectly classified in the game, finally making the game more consistent.

How will this solve the issue you have about it facing your tank?

[O_Warrior0]

@Hetaeron

Your theory is incorrect. It bothers me that the vehicles have been classified incorrectly and are not being used for their actual purpose for which they were created.

Furthermore, if they fix this tank, it will set a precedent… which would force Gaijin to change the classification of many other vehicles that are incorrectly classified in the game, finally making the game more consistent.

I believe the next major update this tank can be used as an infantry tank, as infantry are coming soon.
And how does that change the consistency of the game? Also do you have the evidence of the Valentine XI being a heavy tank yet?

[O_Warrior0]

@Hetaeron

If you’d read, you’d have noticed that the argument has evolved. You’re a prime example of someone who only uses sources that suit you and completely ignores those that contradict you. That’s why I told you to reread the comments

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

He doesn’t believe in the source. He argues in bad faith by ignoring official sources and instead treating player opinions as proof, then dismisses counter-evidence as nonsense, literally every counter argument he made.