Use of fast boats in capital ship matches kills this game mode

The issue is ofc known, but I think its time to complain once more. Currently I have to wait up to 10 minutes to finally get into a Naval RB match using 7.0 bluewater ships.

Whenever I get into a match on a 3 cap map, one supersmart player spawns a fast boat (in this case a PG02) to get the two inner cap points in no time. Battleships and Cruisers spawn very far out and on maps like this there is alot cover for boats to approach the cap and to safely just take it.

From this point on the match bar blinks down super fast. Before you’re even halfway to recapture in a slow WW1 dreadnought, half the match bar is gone. Usually the match is fully lost before you get close enough to cap.

Whats the point of these matches? Whats the point of this game mode? We’ve lost before I even manged to fire some good salvos towards the enemy squadron. The match ended after 7 (!!!) minutes, after I had to wait around 10 minutes. How can it be like this? Just look at the game tab. Almost nothing happened. One team got mere 2 kills (!!!) and the match was over!!! Over before it actually begann und teams exchanged fire.

Who’s the designer of this gamemode? Whats your aim? Can you please figure something out which allows players to actually PLAY THE GAME?

5 Likes

If you binge top tier, this gamemode is an insta waste of a Booster and Daily RP Bonus.

Counter argument is, BR means nothing & if a player wishes to use a smaller vessel to win a match so be it for they’re using every resource to help their team win or want to feel like David Vs Goliath (or MAS-15 sinking Dreadnought SMS Szent István/ Coastal Defence ship SMS Wein).

A few changes that could help the mode:

• Remove the ability of AI capping points, not always the players fault.

• Increase the time limit back to the original time.

• to the above point, And or Increase the ticket limit (a few GF maps recently had similar done, Carpathians & Jungle)

• Reduced the rate of ticket bleed so the match lasts longer, one major flaw of the mode is the ticket bleed which doesn’t favour slow ships coming from long range large craft spawns & iirc speeds up when the opposing team losses enough players.

8 Likes

It is good tactics on their part to keep their eye on how to win - and it is something you can do yourself and/or counter easily without needing to whine about “it’s not fair” - be prepared with a range of vessels in your own preset to counter this!

I have DD’s and PT boats in my “go to” money maker 5.0, and also in all my training 7.0’s.

It’s not difficult.

4 Likes

This is the way.

A good player should push the objectives, whether that’s in a dreadnought or a PT boat. If the other team is willing to use a PT boat to capture the objective, your team should counter-play instead of sitting behind cover and whining about the fact that you lost a point-capture mode.

It’s sad that Gaijin’s map design has made such passive play an inevitability.

5 Likes

I agree with OP here. I waited in the matchmaker for a 7.0 game to use my Battleship! I hate being forced to use one of my precious spawns on a PT boat to cap points in a corner of the map. It makes no sense that a match can be decided this way. Saying its good strategy misses the point of the bad game design.

Naval match objectives need a re-work. Something that’s not a re-hash of ground objectives. Although I would take just moving the cap zones so only one can be taken by PT boats. That way they can influence a match not decide it outright.

To address the ‘Just counter with your own PT boat’ argument. If im playing Britain, Japan or US the best PT boat ive got is 3.3 with 2 x 40mm Bofors L60s and 4 torpedo. What the hell am i supposed to do against a PR-206 or PT boat with the 40mm L70s. If i come up against one, thats 1/3 of my spawns gone in seconds. I may as well have not bothered because a second spawn wont make a difference. The imbalance between nations is ridiculous.

6 Likes

I agree with you on this, and it’s the source of the problem. Ships (and boats) don’t play like tanks, but the game mode and map design are copied.

Except for the open sea and convoy games - which have no land equivalent - Air Dom is perhaps and equivalent to the open sea ones.

50% of my games would be those at a guess

Youre meant to PTFO in war thunder. use a seaplane or pt boat to capture or neutralise the points

I’m sure the same people who say you should use one of your 3 spawns to run at caps so a match ends in 5 minutes and no one gets any rewards has the same opinions on BT-7s rushing caps in top tier.

If I queue in a 7.0 lobby its because I want to play 7.0, not fight over some tiny cap in a boat when I’m bound to run into some meta coastal vessel the nation I’m playing doesn’t have.
Let me hop in a hydroplane in a ship invented before those existed and spend a couple minutes flying in a 4V4 depriving my team of a quarter of their firepower while I’m doing so.

Zones don’t make sense for capital ships.
If I wanted to fight over caps I’d go play coastal.

And there’s so little rewards to be had when a match only lasts for 5 minutes because a pr206 charged and is camping those caps its just better to crew lock and move on.

5 Likes

When I play a battleship, battlecruiser or dreadnought, you’re really suggesting to J out, sink it? Ffinally spawn a coastal boat just to re-capture nameless circles in a coastal area?

What are 7.0 ships good for, when the match decision depends on small boats?

Solution would be to inactivate the inner cap points from a certain BR onwards. Also reduce the ticket loss rate. Extent the game time to allow re-captures. Capital ship gameplay is just slower paced and the ship spawns are very far out. Superfast coastals + capture machanics are not really compatible. Especially since they spawn literally next to the spawn points. Its already decided before my slow turrets even rotate towards these point.

4 Likes

Introduction of seaplanes half solved this problem but not all battleships have them. Perhaps they can introduce something similar to ground AB where players can temporarily use boats to fight with the opponent boats and to cap.

1 Like

it would be a solution, but tbh: When I play capital ships, I just don’t want to roll boats. Boat gameplay is entirely different.

Seaplanes are not really working to counter this, since most boats easily shot them down. As you already said, not all bluewater ships have seaplanes.

Three-cap on a wide-open flat map would have its own problems, I suspect. The only reason it works at all (same as in WoWS and WTM) is the presence of some terrain.

Reducing terrain and further separating spawn to make the mode more like in those other games would run up against the complaints of people they couldn’t start shooting immediately. We just saw the two coastal maps with the most terrain removed this week because players complained it took too long to get into action.

So yeah, I don’t think there’s any easy fixes here. People want 12-minute games, that brings everything close, with no terrain that becomes a big-fish little-fish situation where the bottom BRs if they’re smart just ODL and hope for better, as we see in the current one-cap mode already.

My one idea would be to make the class of tech tree floatplanes first-spawn possible (no SP required), same as boats and ships. That would increase the possibilities at all BRs for creative play to deny or seize the boat cap. A lineup with three Battleships and a floatplane you can fly out first to contest the boat cap would be more fun and flexible for some people than two Battleships, a boat, and a plane you can’t spawn til end game.

(EDIT: this approach worked well in tournaments, where in 3v3/4v4/5v5 naval you could spawn one of the planes you were allowed at start (mostly floatplanes) as well as coastals, destroyers and cruisers.

The advantage there was the floatplane was more versatile as a first spawn. If the other side started with a boat, you could snap it and deny the cap. But if there’s no boat you could still go on fighter patrol or try to bomb one of the capital ships. Also you start at altitude, whereas cruiser floatplanes have to fight for height and take longer to get in position over the boat cap. Plus worst case you got a good look at the battlefield and could use that info for your second capital ship spawn.)

1 Like

More Gaijin than people, because longer game means more rewad to player, which Gaijin definitely hates.

1 Like

Exactly a long 25 minute match generates very high RP and SL rewards, especially since most of the action happens later on. Within the first minutes just alot positioning and long range shooting happenes.

A short, abortive match not only has low game-time modifiers, but also jut few kills and low damage done. You get almost nothing if the match bar blinks down too quickly with just 1 or 2 kills.

While vice verca you might get tenths of thousand RP and hundret++ thousand SL.

I doubt alot players want short 10 min matches, its a waste of time. Its similar in Air RB and Ground RB. Long match + decent activity result in high rewards. The same time used for several short matches gives not that much.

modify the caps so boat caps bleed at less than half the rate of blue water caps

a lot of the problems spring from some of the stupid daily tasks they set so one person getting them screws a whole game for everyone else

as a funny bitch
i just got a daily task of kill 2 player vessels … cool sounds reasonable
the match maker gives me a match against 1 real player and the rest bots … ok thats going to make it harder
and the real player is 3 full br’s above me … hahaha u useless …

1 Like

With one of the the last patches they changed this. Killing these bot ‘players’ also applies for the task now

2 Likes

How did it do that?? sure it means some capital ships stand a small chance of capping - but not if the other side has PT boats or the equivalent - Seaplanes are just free pinata’s for any boats capping the zones.

2 Likes

Don’t think there are many naval players that want 10 -minute games…thats basically queue-time!
It’s just Gajin lacking the will to evolve the game into something more than the arcade-style domination maps we have now!