USA A-10C bias needs to be 12.0 to be “fair”

At least one member in the group immediately off the nose of the aircraft should apear, the others may be hidden in ground clutter, as the expected distance to the target is many multiples of ownship altitude. And the two off to the left may be outside the searched volume, but I don’t know MiG-21 cockpit clock relationship and +/- 30 degrees is a pretty narrow scan pattern, and the RL-2 lacks PD mode.

Did you wait for the radar to populate the contacts? You do get that these systems aren’t instant and only update so often, especially considering that the polling rate for early systems isn’t that high so can take a few passes to create a reliable fix.

I’m not the one using cherrypicked images where nothing is appearing.

You know you can combine various sources of information to form a more complete picture, maybe there are obscurants like clouds or fog that prevent Visual detection.

So please explain how you are going to interrogate a target via their RWR without the use of your radar?

Mostly because you cropped the rest of the image and so removed some of the information that would be pertinent to said determination, also trends are fairly hard to establish from a single measurement, also the lack of a heading makes adjusting for ownship maneuvers difficult at best.

You also have to account for the drag value, length, weight and calibre when it comes to range.

Out of the newer Fox 3’s (not Phoenix), aim120 and aam4’s got the lowest deltaV and the Mica/R-darter/Derby has the highest deltaV, despite this the aim120/aam4 massively outranging the the others.

With that being said I think R73 and AIM9M is pretty similar but idk for sure

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We were mainly talking about the seeker head… but okay. But thanks for letting me know the R-73 has slightly more range, I’ll be sure to launch it at maximum range for minimum effect.

You are aware that the scope is not the radar right? They are two different systems, imagine my shock when older radar scope systems dont display target information next to the target.

I guess the display scope not showing numerical information makes radial velocity to the emitter just not exist.

Such is already included in the delta V calculation, the AAM4 and 120 also do not outrange the R-77, MICA-ER or Derby, they do however out speed them due to other contributing factors, such as their loft pattern (the Derby is still hilarious given how hard it lofts), in the same vein that the AIM-54 technically almost has the same range as the Fakour 90 but the Fakour 90 will impact the target far FAR earlier than the AIM-54 due to the setup of it’s booster.

In the end though, yes, the 9M and R-73 are quite similar in overall performance, the R-73 does edge out the 9M by a bit when it comes to overall kinematic performance, that small improvement on a faster airframe furthers the gap even more, and this is omitting the TVS.

Hmmm yes, you are aware that I can just follow the comment chain up and see that Axzuel was throwing EM graphs at you, pretty sure the velocity of the launching aircraft has no influence on the performance of the seeker head while the range and emissions of the target do.

No it’s not. They if we’re referring to Gszabi’s missile spreadsheet, deltaV is just calculated with the start mass, endmass, burn time and thrust. Which gives the missiles deltaV value. As soon as the motor burns out, only the mass, loft and drag (based on CxK value, calibre of the missile, wingareamult etc) matters, not deltaV. Which is why aim120 massively outranges the R77 with a greater deltaV value, and why the Phoenix clearly outranges the Mica despite the Phoenix only having 4.5% more deltaV than the Mica.

What is your source on this?

It’s all too easy to say that they should populate. The reality is that they do not and that most radars at this tier are simply not all that useful.

Considering I was directly pointed at the cluster basically from the instant I took off from the runway…it had the maximum amount of time to populate.

I used radar images from the first game I played in the 21 Bis in probably a few months.

Completely irrelevant to the point. We do not have maps that take place in full darkness or IFR conditions. Even on very cloudy maps there will be a clear layer near the ground.

The HMD on the A-10C has IFF capabilities.

Friendly dots are automatically circled in green. Process of elimination means non-circled dots are enemy. And this works 360 degrees and is not limited by range. In conjunction with digital RWR and MAWS…I have better situational awareness in the A-10 than I do in even top tier aircraft.

Here I will uncrop it for you.

The only additional information to be gleemed is that the target is probably pointed at me considering the RWR warning.

In the same circumstance with the A-10…I would have basically all of the same information from just the RWR and it would tell me that the target is a J-37.

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What is the human interaction with the radar as it is rendered in-game? Is there some other piece of equipment people need to be using in order to interact with the radar that isn’t the radar scope? How do we unlock this ability?

[quote=“CorporalApollo, post:805, topic:155665”]
No it’s not. They if we’re referring to Gszabi’s missile spreadsheet, deltaV is just calculated with the start mass, endmass, burn time and thrust. Which gives the missiles deltaV value. As soon as the motor burns out, only the mass, loft and drag (based on CxK value, calibre of the missile, wingareamult etc) matters, not deltaV.

I should re-word this, such is already taken into account uniformly across the missiles, they all preform as if they are the same missile in regards to deltaV.


image

The R-77 and 120A are actually quite evenly matched, the MICA-ER pulls slightly ahead in most situations, the PL-12 and Derby are screwed by their loft as stated(which has been toned down a bit as of late for the PL-12, but the derby and darter still have that crazy 27.5 degree loft) , they can still hit targets at a similar range, but instead come down nearly vertically like a rock and take vastly longer to cover the same distance.

image

Still funny to me that the R-27ER and 7F/M still make impacts out to similar ranges without any loft, usually with the 27ER reaching the target at the same time as the MICA and the 7F/M just keeps cruising along with that sustainer, with the likes of the Fakour and Sedjil being the ones who outspeed everything.

Anywho, radar missiles flight performance is a bit off topic here as the original statement is between the 9M and R-73, which, once again, are quite similar bar the TVS of the R-73 in terms of kinematics.

Someone has not played on overcast Afghanistan before.

Its this amazing thing known as math that the radar itself does to determine the rate of closure or lack thereof without doppler shift. You take the distance of the target during one sweep, then take the distance of the target in the next sweep, then find out how long that sweep took and the distance changed in relation to target direction, you now have a velocity. Such is required for radars to generate tracks. Search scopes do not display this information nor do many older scopes in general as such information was displayed on other indicators, usually on the RIO panel for a selected target, sometimes even target acceleration would be shown. Such limitations are also something that crops up with a number of HUDs in game too, with HUDs like the phantoms simply plopping the gunsight on the target when acquired, while say the jeff puts a nice, separate target box over the locked target, or in the case of the JHMCS (which the F-15C and 16C have but not implemented properly) should show RWR and radar tracks on the HMD much akin to the A-10C’s friendly IFF circles.

Modern scopes will show this information and in many cases the direction of flight of the target in the search scope as RIOs are no longer common in aircraft.

TLDR: You are flying an older aircraft without modern radar scope luxuries, the radar still understands the velocity of the stuff it’s scanning without being a PD radar, it cannot show you this data because the scope you are using was not designed to show it.

What are the launch conditions here? Were they launched at the same time? You’ve de-selected both flight-time and distance travelled in the sensor view… All missiles are going to look similar during/right after booster burn.

Ultimately the range comes down to what happens during its terminal phase, and how much speed missile loses when manoeuvring. We’re discussing max range, not where missiles are ~15 seconds into flight like your pictures seem to indicate. Launch the missiles at the same exact time and then compare how far each have flown by the time they go below ~M1.0 Kinematically AIM120 is much superior from my understanding

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Overcast Afghanistan still has a clear layer of air above ground level and in the areas of the map where most gameplay happens in Sim.

You are so close to understanding the argument.
What is better? An HMD/RWR/MAWS combination that allows you to IFF from one side of the map to the other, correctly identifies all enemy radar signatures and provides accurate bearing and rough estimate of range, and will also automatically defeat most IR missile launches automatically?

Or a radar that amounts to a glorified gunsight?

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These launches are at less than 20km and at low altitude based on the Mach numbers.

You can see here that at 45 seconds that with a 9000m launch the R-27ER is going Mach 2.79 and has traveled 23km.

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Don’t forget the Flares that A-10C uses should also have no / limited report in the Visual Spectrum ((X)M216, MJU-50 & -51), so be harder to determine if pre-flaring is being employed, but still be visible though IR & Thermal channels.

@Stona_WT

I hate to ping you, but I must ask, how is it fair, the A-10C only goes to 11.7?

I mean look at the Su-25SM3 and compare it to the A-10C, the A-10C wins in pretty much every category…

Like I see there is clearly a bias against the USSR at every level of the game now. It’s sickening, as the nation I’ve worked to hard to spade gets beaten down time and time again, while others get to reign supreme with ease. As I posted before, I might as well just play solely the USA or Germany or something…
At least the Mig-23s are in a decent place now.


11.7, for a plane still better than the whole br range in sim.

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I think you killed him with facts Unknown.

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This has to be satire

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You are reading too much into this.

It got moved up by a step this patch.

A bunch of stuff that was getting farmed by it got moved down by a step.

If it continues farming it’s opposition…it will probably get moved another step by the next balancing update.

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Not really, especially not when the whole of the WW2 USSR tanks got blanket nerfed, they all (some exceptions) went from -5 degrees gun depression, to -3 degrees.

Think of the Obj 248 as a great example, came in as 6.3, then it got nerfed to 6.7, had its reload nerfed, had its gun depression nerfed.

The Mi-35M, is equal to, if not marginally better than its counter parts at 10.3, yet is a higher br (among other cons).

The Kronstadt, is the second easiest battle cruiser to ammo rack in game now, yet the sharnhorst stands uncontested as it just eats all damage from everyone.

The Su-25SM3 stayed at 12.3 while not being any better than the A-10C

I have been having a much better time playing things such as the USA, Sweden, or Germany. It’s very easy in comparison to the USSR tech tree for the most part.
Thankfully the F-14s finally went to a BR they deserve though.

But look at the reload rate difference now.
The USSR at top tier is the slowest reloading guns in the game, I would’ve been okay if the top reload for nato teams was like 5.8 secs, but 5.0 secs constantly is a bit quick for 12~30 rounds depending on your tanks.

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Realism change, also wasnt blanket nerf

You don’t see irony in complaining about these two vehicles

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LMFAO… Claiming bias against the Su-25SM3… The single most handheld fixed wing aircraft in the game…Now I’ve seen everything

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With the Kron there is a little, sure. But the Su isn’t really capable of defending itself well at 12.3, even with the F-14s going up.

But tbf they did nerf the Kron pretty bad to the point anytime I’m hit now in it an shell room goes up, then the next one, and the next one, until I’m sitting there at 12% crew and shell - less.

But the scharnhorst has never been nerfed, only buffed. And I’ve seen tons of allied and Japanese ships absolutely blowing the hell out of a Scharn for it to just sit there like nothing is happening XD

I would say the most fair tech trees for naval are USA, USSR, and Italy, with Germany and Japan having some bully ships that refuse any damage.