Delusional Alvis as always, Pantsir can reach upto 20km last time i tested it, so i don’t know what u smoking but 12 km is BS.
Light tank u mean HSTV-L with the worst top tier round?
M829A3 gotta be added to the game, with the same pen but can defeat kontakt.
False it can kill upto 20 km and lock on targerts above clouds and fog. Pantsir simply is a BIG mistake there’s no SPAA equivalent to it.
But not better armor, it got better mobility but less survivability, the M1 has better technologie but more stuff on the Turret for HE shells to easily penetrate the Turret, Pantsir able to penetrate the SEP2 Turret is insane, and let’s not mention that the SEPV2 can easily get penetrated and one shot none other than the 3BM42 in the hull, the shells literally goes into kill the crew set u on fire damage your engine and goes out, it’s literally a M1 Abrams nothing changed from the 80’s.
Mobility helps.
The more I play the more I start to think armour is nearly irrevelant, with good armour people will just spam through your turret neck more.
And it’s not an excuse to say you cant play it aggressively. You have quite more than top tier ranks, yknow.
At pretty much a lot of them there’s examples and examples of vehicles that perform well effectively with just it’s speed.
Both armour and survivability is your pool to take punishment for your mistakes. Or at least that’s how it should be seen, as even with most protected tanks of any times there’s lots of way of knocking it out in WT.
Or a tool to use effectively in scenarios like shooting behind the hills, but mobility covers that.
Like everyone.
Being able to use mobility and map knowledge, considering and performing your reload rate, as well as considering positions of your enemies are a skill.
Plus given “solutions” regarding Abrams wouldnt solve much.
These lines are a bit out of context, but to clarify: Im aware of shooting enemy weakspots is the name of the game. As russian vehicles tend to have consistent, small weakspots, it would increase the area where you can kill them with a new top tier round.
And I fail to see russian vehicles having problems. But to be fair, their Winrates might be influenced largely by their insane CAS / AA combination. Yes, the new round wouldnt be beneficial against the best tanks, neither the russians or the Leos. The point is american teams are falling apart for years now and action needs to be taken against it, as we can see in the last patch, when other nations were getting very good additions to their tanks, the SEPv2 war cleary not even a sidegrade.
Most of the tanks, besides the slow ones like Challenger or Merkava, are relatively equal going forward, so thats not a big advantage for the abrams, which is getting slower with the SEP1 and 2 without getting much for it besides better thermals.
I think it depends on the situation. If your facing an equally skilled player on equal terms, your armor would make the difference. Since in your Abrams, you need to aim carefully at the drivers hatch, the gun mantlet or the lower frontal plate, while on a T Series, you can aim at the very large LFP or the big turret ring/gun mantlet of the abrams. Yes, most of the times there are way more things to consider. In the game, positioning becomes very important. But when comparing tanks, you need to think of equal terms imho, to clearly see whats the better vehicle.
If thats the case, it shouldnt be a thing to give the tank its ammo thats been in use since like 20 years, right?
Punishment which comes from spall liners, aka survivability. Armour being an effect is more of your opponent’s mistake and not something your armour decides for you. In other words it’s something that actually helps in small amounts of times, considering your 90% isnt premiums.
Do you see Israel, France, Italy, Japan players sitting ducks on spawn or always behind a rock waiting to be CASed or pushed?
In other words you want something as a crutch for the lack of skill in your team.
So in other words your way is going right into center and getting pushed all way back?
All targets wont be a T-80U and armour wont do shit while the turret neck is existent.
Nope.
Nowhere close, especially the Challengers.
And even then both Merkava and Challengers outperform Abrams, both having literally worse everything.
I literally mentioned the Challenger in the subordinate clause you have taken away in that quote… Leos, T-Series, Chinese, Japanese and american tanks are pretty close in forward mobility, only the reverse rates are very different, with american tanks getting worse with every more modern variant, without the addition of better armor.
You’re dodging my points here.
You yourself said that this would only affect Kontakt-5 -equipped Russian tanks, those are the T-90A, T-72B3 and T-80U. Those three vehicles are already struggling to compete.
Meanwhile, it wouldn’t change anything for the T-90M and T-80BVM, once again, you yourself said it wouldn’t do much against Relikt -equipped tanks.
Why do you want to nerf the vehicles which the M1 didn’t have a problem dealing with anyways?
If you believe the T-72B3, T-90A or T-80U (to a lesser extend) don’t have problems competing at 11.7 matchmaking, you haven’t played them.
‘‘For years now’’
Hyperbole isn’t going to convince me of your arguments I’m afraid.
Just over a year ago, the M1A2 SEP was sitting on a 70% winrate and the IPM1/M1A1 well above 70% for months.
Yes, that means premium/squadron vehicles for other nations at 11.3 as well.
The problem with US high tier is squarely with it’s horrendously poor playerbase, not the MBT’s they have at their disposal.
T-90M was also a sidegrade to the T-80BVM, as were the Leclerc AZUR, Challenger 3TD and plenty of other vehicles. Even the Strv 122B+ is still a sidegrade.
You would be ignoring mobility as a whole which isnt as lacking as you try to portrait.
Theres more than forward speed and reverse speed like how fast your tank rotates, get to their respective speeds and how much they lose while adjusting their movement.
Abrams got spall liners but it’s considered a real one because it’s not like the Russian one.
You don’t even play with US teams so your point doesn’t make sense at all.
It helps 99% of the time if someone shot at me and it didn’t do anything to me it would be a great benefit won’t it?
US play 90% of the time against Russia, it can’t spawn CAS its gonna get sandwiched, it cannot spawn an SPAA since it cannot do absolutely nothing against the SU-25SM3 so i don’t know why u compare them nations with US since most of them are small nations compared with the US.
I won’t say that the US teams doesn’t lack skill, they do but most of the players do have skills but infortunately they get crushed while most of the time they play against the Copium BVM, and leos.
What you gonna do about it? pop smoke every 2 sec to not get killed by a Vikhr? or hide between buildings to not get stomped on by SU-25SM3?? or kill tanks that got spall liners and let’s not mention the Stalin BVM side armor thats made from copîum.
You do realize that the Army won’t let a weak spot like that stay for long to be in one of the latest tanks such as the SEPV2???
UK and Israel play with the winning team most of the time, you’re onto nothing buddy.
You mean the COPY and PASTE abrams??
Unpenetrable Hull and turret, poor mobility (not my fault the Russians are too stupid to add good mobility to their tanks)
Nah they’re not, the players that play with them are struggling, Russia gets the best of the best, and still they struggle??? How? u gonna mention mobility, turret rotation, that’s how it is in real life,???
T90M is equipped with such thing? it dies easily, i guess i would do better if we had the same armor, put Relikt on Abrams and let’s see how we gonna do and winrates gonna stay the same.
The good ol’ days, when Russia used to get stomped on like they do in real life. But BOOM let’s nerf the ADATS copy and paste the whole abrams, nerf anything that’s american, not model correctly anything that’s western, and let’s give Sweden better armor than leopards because yeah WE devs love Sweden hehehehe.
Correct, I havent played them. The T90a is a vehicle with a way lower BR, so it shouldnt be a concern that it struggles to compete at 11.7. Dont have a clear opinion on the other two.
Do you have a source for that? I can only remember US hardly going to 50 percent, most of the times way lower than that. Concerning winrates, youre saying that russia struggles, while their winrates are constantly very high.
Thats an argument I wanted to avoid. Its just a claim that you are making and doesnt bring anything worth talking about. In my opinion, the playerbase of the most popular nations is equally skilled since many new player want to play them. Minor nations often have more experienced players.
And as I said, SEPv2 wasnt even a sidegrade. T90M offered better survivability due to spall liners and a better protected caracell, the Chally 3 better Ammo, the 122B+ better survivability. The SEPv2 was just heavier, more easy to spot. Nothing more.
Even when taking these things into account, they are still pretty close, and the M1 gets to the worst end. So theres no point in going further into specific turn rates etc, its the same result.
Well, what does that make any other MBTs… other than being inferior?
I 100% agree. But again, I would like to see other nations with vehicles that can be just ON-PAR with the Strv 122s and Leo 2A7Vs. This includes every nation, like Italy and Israel, including the US. Their suffering isn’t special compared to something like the Ariete, but it’s still unbalanced. Just that there are more US mains than Italian mains, and that exacerbates their voice on the matter.
Another key point is that Germany gets chosen to be on the same team as Sweden and USSR (and sometimes other minor nations) against USA, which substantially affects the winrate and the problem of unequal MBTs.
From what I can tell, USA’s MBTs aren’t the only problem, but the teammates that teams consist of (premium inexperienced players with clickbaits). But even then, the winrate in Japan between 10.0 and 12.0 hasn’t really changed that much after the Fuji came out. So are inexperienced players that much better in the Fuji than in the Clickbait?
Cope about external spall liner or liner only for ammo rack: Pick it.
Do you think online is strictly Allies vs Axis or NATO vs Warsaw Pact and USSR or smth to say that ?
If seeing armoured tank doesnt make you think and shoot into the weakspots even at top tier I only think you bought your way there through premiums and such.
Never knew you had official statistics but alr.
If existance of Pantsir is your only argument then I wont take it.
Theres countless videos of people yet succeding or even straight up slaughtering Pantsir’s.
Plus taking an aircraft or shooting the missiles down are always an option, first of which should be made more viable by making aircraft’s with no ground attacking weaponry cost much less, not only USA problem but really is a problem of every each nation in game all BRs and ranks.
So maybe stay out of the stream of teammates who just push W before getting crushed and do something else but not just pressing W key and hoping firepower of your team will be better?
And hows your copium/anytime suggested is supposed to help?
War was never symmetrical yet better equipment never granted the win.
And yes cover and smokes are a tool and I cant imagine playing even T series without those.
As I havent seen any angle increase or something that would include armour increase not really.
From you it sounds like cope but from IRL stand point round hitting that exact place is just as unlikely as something hitting lower plate or driver port of T series.
Again you doing nothing but pulling shit out of nothing.
You have nothing to back your words with.
As I tried to represent it’s not the tools winning for you but the players.
In such manner I had an uptier while playing soviet 10.7, had best scenario by your words, Sweden and USSR being coupled together.
Yet we lost to other team with their best player being literally the last Challenger 2 premium basically bringing his team to a victory.
I have not.
I said the T-72B3, T-80U and T-90A struggle to compete.
I said nothing about the T-80BVM, T-90M, Russian CAS, SPAA, etc. struggling in general.
They clearly aren’t, exactly because of the large numbers of low level players that rushed their way to top-tier USA.
Flavour of the month effect is also a thing that’s been with us since the start of War Thunder, the Leopard 2A7V is the flavour of the month and thus attracts skilled players.
It clearly is.
And significanly worse acceleration, worse reload rate, worse reverse speed, etc. compared to the T-80BVM.
Many people still prefer the T-80BVM over the T-90M.
But worse reload.
Hence a sidegrade. You’d know this if you played these vehicles.
I get the feeling you are completely unfamiliar with playing anything but US tanks.
All Strv’s received spall liners, the Strv 122B doesn’t have better survivability at all.
I would suggest you start playing those other nations, because it’s becoming more and more a case of ‘‘US Main thinks grass is always greener on the other side’’.
Even with 2s its better reload for such bad first stage ammo rack and not specifically best penetration.
That making it 2 top tier worthy vehicles with America having 3, same SPAA’s , same helicopter basis.
Yet one you find with 30% winrate.
There is even one russian youtuber to call Challengers being at 3rd best MBT and calling it the best nation. Quite rich for something you would think struggles if you only accounted for “META” as anything viable.
Both actually, it has been proved u can check sources that’s been rotting here for months and get ignored by people like u.
Did i say something such as this?? or you just getting this shit from your brain?
I know every tank weakspots but that’s not enough to defeat all of them, you need good helis with good missiles, good CAS, good SPAA to defend u from getting stomped on by the absolute BS SU-25SM3.
Why would i need one when i play against them most of the time??
I don’t care if you take or not buddy, the existence of Pantsir in the game is a mistake.
Yeah no shit and there’s videos of the Pantsir slaughtering and taking down MAVS mid-air.
Russians and every nation do this one most of the time i don’t see you mentioning that?
Crazy how it does make sense to you only.
Better equipment is granting an absolute win, delusional statements lmao
They don’t need to, there’s special shells for that, also t-series are old META that still getting used to this day is sad honestly and let’s not mention the turret POP.
If you play top tier you would agree but yet you’re doing absolutely nothing but mentioning low BR expecting it to validate your point pal.
The tools are lacking in the US tech tree, but players are here suffering.
WOOW a good premium player i’m really surprised, so you getting stomped on by a challi is somehow a thing to mention?? + why you bringing 10.7 into +11.7 topic?
Something it seemed from you saying I never get to play with US teams.
So good sources they cant convince even a child.
Or just one non ignorant player to take F-4 or F16.
Plus its ground battles.
The initial battle can be won only on ground.
Only after it becomes somewhat combined with people spawning planes.
To speak it like its official and no other stand point or any others experience cant be even considered.
In other words you putting it like no other cases can happen, no other variables driven from playing on other servers, timezones.
And the cope is unreal.
https://youtu.be/cH5Dpb8oKb4
https://youtu.be/yTH2084bm84
This one is with CAS having limited vision and only kills are so op 2S6 and Pantsirs.
It’s not the need to" question of why theres little armour there but “how likely this is to be hit”.
Both have low chances, hence the protection being weaker.
Sad I have to read it letter by letter for you.
The battle literally was the top tier?
Plus the issues described arent issues of USA and top tier exactly.
I hate how much this community has to ignore literally everything but 10.3 and top tier, as well as taking vehicles and WR as only the vehicles matter, excluding every and each possibility of player skill and team coordination.
🤔 General lack or presence of both surely have nothing to do with any nations WR.
And you would be lying to say they re lacking.
As again even with Britain, a somewhat developed nations US is clearly on top in comparasion.
And here is the ignorance i mentioned before.
Thats an example scenario of skill of a player being better than just setup of two powerful nations.
Plus I literally mentioned the uptier, Challenger 2 premium of there being one, the 11.3 one.
So even with that Sweden and USSR have good setups though the battle was full up tier for me.
11.7
That’s the same as basically every other heli ATGM though? Most top tier tanks don’t have LWS and spotting an ATGM coming at you is pretty rare. Its range would still be lower than Vikhrs or any of the other 10km range ATGMs.
So why would it require the AH-64D to be 13.0?
Everyone’s favorite Russia defender defending mother Russia from my criticism. :)
You’ve never accepted my 1v1 you in Pantsir, so we know you’re bluffing.
@PercussionCap
There are zero helicopters in War Thunder with radar AGMs, thus not the same.