After previous BR update, F104A or F8U2 is completely outperforming every other jets around 9.0-10.3 and it’s completely unplayable.
As for Starfighter, it has outstanding speed making subsonic planes difficult to keep up and even impossible to throw missiles.
Crusader has just everything to outperform other planes like 4 18G missiles and good mobility.
Mostly we need 0.3-0.7 BR higher for them.
Literal skill issue. The F8U-2 is abit annoying, but the F-104 is just outclassed by most other planes in almost every way in uptiers
Man he was talking about subsonics in downtiers, it’s not fair for planes under one plane to be completely oppressed because it may struggle in uptiers. Balance around the general MM, not one plane.
“F-104A/C being outclassed by every other jets”
Then it’s skill issue of me hhhahhhaahaa
Even most subsonics aren’t “oppressed” by F-104. The only reason it performs so well in downtiers is because wallet warriors and noob Germany/Russia mains have 0 spatial awareness and just obliviously fly in a straight line as you line up a perfect shot 0.3 miles from behind. Moving it up in BR is unnecesary and would make it even more helpless in uptiers.
I’d rather they be helpless in uptiers than accidentally ruin an entire br spread by existing. Coming from someone who used the F-104s when they first released, they were broken
You can out accelerate, out climb, and out speed everything in a down tier. You are a literal god and can attack and disengage with impunity, the only way for them to kill you if if you mess up.
The only real issue they pose is making games last longer, which is simply solved by destroying ground ai targets.
No1 can kill a skilled F-104 player, but no F-104 can kill a skilled . . . literally anything else that isn’t a bomber. Its turning is simply too trash to follow a simple turn and actually shoot som1 down.
Doesn’t the 104 do all that in an up tier, too?
Boom and zoom it’s been the strategy since props for the USA
If they let a plane with decent missiles get within range but if they keep their speed up they won’t have to worry
Rockets can easily counter the missiles the 104 sees in an up tier.
It can’t carry rockets
It’s not reliable when all the enemy has to do is just make a slight turn and then it’s physically impossible for you to shoot them down due to your trash turning.
Especially bad in uptiers where planes like A-10 and Su-25 can simply headon you with R-9Ls, and if you have no FFARs there’s nothing you can do to stop it. F-104 is untouchable to most, but A-10/25 is untouchable, AND can kill you.
Also planes like F8U or Ayit that can hunt you down with their missiles if you fail to kill them first pass even if you’re going over double their speed.
Also T-2s and A-5C which can also go supersonic, yet have better missiles, and Mig-21 which goes supersonic whilst having borderline OP missiles.
The A can’t, but the C can bring FFARs.
Between Mach 1.02 and 0.94 it can pull sustained 12Gs.
Those need to go up to 12.0+. They shouldn’t be used as a ceiling for other planes because they are criminally under tiered.
Again, under tiered planes need to go up and shouldn’t be used as a system for whether or not X goes up and Y goes down
You have valid concerns and points but decompression is the real solution here, we need a MM where you can play with relative equals, things in 8.3 are no match for an F-104. A F-104 with bad positioning is no match for an AIM-9L or R-60. It will forever be a hard to balance plane because is a Mach 2 fighter with AIM-9Bs. It should not be facing early post war jets though.
It’s still not enough to follow an enemy fighter that simply turns. F-104 capitalizes on noobs that have 0 spatial awareness, which thankfully is quite common at 8.3
I have never had any problems fighting Ayit in other planes, e.g Harrier. I’m pretty sure the problem is the F-104’s playstyle, not the Ayit br.
Its wing rip before reaching mach 2 unless you for some reason decide to climb in jet warfare.
Though I do agree with you that decompression is the only real solution. Sadly Gajin disagrees.
The F-104 is an absolute menace in a downtier, I’ve used it. If you approach literally anyone at mach speed and immediately pitch up to store all your energy you can dive back on them with impunity, they can’t even hope to zoom climb after you
Most planes are a menace in downtiers, the F-104 is special because you need next to 0 skill or advanced tactics to avoid dying to it. It’s really just as simple as turning, and the 104 has 0 chance to follow.
Yes, the F-104 is annoying in downtiers because it just runs away. But against 10.3-9.7s it’s pretty helpless. Any missile more capable than an AIM-9B is essentially a death sentence unless- either it hits you or you blow all your speed dodging it and now don’t have any advantage over your opponent. Even most other 9.3s, from the MiG-19 to MiG-21 to Lightning to F-100 and F3H absolutely body it, with far better agility and similar speed and climb rate. People only complain about the F-104s because they’re the most commonly faced supersonics. But among the supersonic fighters the F-104s are some of the worst.
A single split-S in anything less a B-57 will evade it, without burning much energy. Sure, you can’t really chase down the Starfighter, but it also can’t do anything to you unless you let it by flying straight or stalling out. It’s like a Do 335 but without any bombers to kill.