Oh boy, I'm waiting for some decompression to properly grind it :P
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Okay, and?
I still dont see the issue though.
The F-15C GE has gotten every single buff the US mains have asked for. BOL. 12x AMRAAM count, etc etc. based upon stats, its doing fine. Not well, but not bad either.
What more do they want? By the sounds of the F-22 thread, they want F-22s with Aim-9X2, Aim-120D, HMD, be totally invisible to radar and just play like they were shooting fish in a barrel.
Is that really a good idea?
and what can be done to the F-15s? Sure, maybe the FM is wrong, but so is the Typhoon’s. just because the Typhoon is doing marginally better than most, does that mean it cant get bug reports fixed anymore? Are reports done based upon player stats now?
And as I have said, 99% of the time, I see an F-15, I get a free kill because they never seem to put any effort into defending. Is that the aircrafts fault or is that pilots fault?
Switching this back to ground?
M1A1/M1A2s are fine. Sure they have some flaws, who doesnt. But this idea they and they alone need better shells, is BS. This idea they have the weakest tanks at top tier, is BS. What next, M1A2 Sep V2 to 11.7 because US mains suck? Is that how we are balancing vehicles now?
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no LEGION IRST pod, no EPAWSS. AMRAAMs suck and TGP doesnt have a2a functionality, but these arent exclusive issues
There arent any in-game currently. Wouldnt be surprised if that needs a whole boat load of new code as they are often tied to the radars directly and IRST as it is can be very buggy, cant imagine the buggyness with them being optional and external.
MAWS and extra CMs? Sure, but I dont think it would make that big of a difference, as they dont seem to be reacting to the RWRs, and by the time MAWS detected the missile, they are probably already too late to defend.
They suck on everything, though more often than not, I think people try to employ them wrong.
None have this, and if the F-15 got it, so would everyone else. Like the AESA Typhoon can get its Litening V Tpod for this for example
Like I said, it’s mid. Mid doesn’t mean it’s bad.
However it is not close and shouldn’t be the same BR as the AESA EFTs.
extra CM and sphere RWR
i literally said that
Maybe, sticking with pure stats, it should be the same BR as the German AESA-Phoon and definetly the same BR as all the CAPTOR-M Phoons.
But taking the AESA-Phoons as an average, sure, they should be higher, but only barely, 0.3 difference at most and even then, it wouldnt take much to push the F-15C GE up to the same BR, and I think all the F-15s actually need a 0.3 BR increase anyway. So something like
AESA-Phoons, 15.0
F-15C GE 14.7
F-15E 14.3
F-15C 14.0
and there are still outstanding issues for the Typhoons that need to be resolved at some point. Some would benefit the F-15 like fixing 9Miss, BOL, and AMRAAMs, but others like ECRS buffs would be wholey Typhoon
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F-15 doesnt have spherical RWR?
Holy moley, the US make bad aircraft
mid ragebait, the RWR ingame is really old lol
Also regarding this part:
It’s a demokrat topic. Sure they are not TIGER_TANK level of takes, but it’s still hard to take demokrat seriously most of the time. If you see that name above the post it’s already all the info you need.
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Just putting in my two cents here, I don’t think that we are ready for the F-22 yet. No one is arguing that it should be totally invisible to radar either (except for a few trolls). What they were arguing, however, is that stealth should be properly implemented. This means lower detection ranges, not invisibility. If you could not distinguish the two in the thread, then that was a deliberate choice on your behalf.
In addition, HMD is feasible (at least if they do an F-22 Early/Late) because it underwent testing in the mid 2010s, got a contract awarded in late 2024, and has since received the Scorpion HMD.
Next-gen missiles are also on their way to the game, and with the PL-15 in the files, I would not be surprised if the AIM-120D gets added as well.
An early/late set of variants should solve most of the issues — what we do not need, however, is one with only AIM120Cs and 9Ms at 14.7/15.0. That’s just uncompetitive, especially considering that stealth, as aforementioned, does not equal invisibility. Even more so at closer engagement ranges.
How the F-22 should be implemented is at a higher BR, especially for the late variant. Remember when the F-15E was released, it was the only 14.0? And for about a year after that, the USA had no 14.3s? Not everything is going to sit at the same BR, and not everything has to match the F-22s BR. I think it should not be butchered ingame to fit BR constraints, nor should it be added before we are ready.
The solution to these issues is an early/late foldering where the early does not receive HMD and earlier model missiles. The late variant, which could be added later, gets its proper equipment. It would sit at a higher BR. It should also only be added once other nations get their top tier 5th gen aircraft to compete. Then, it could sit 0.3 higher than those others for fairness. I see the recently added 14.3s getting next gen missiles, moving up to 14.7/15.0, most 5th gens at 15.3, and the F22 being 15.7.
Sound good to you?
And the lower detection range they wanted was like 10-15km.
How is that any different to being invisible if they just sit at 30km firing AMRAAMs?
Feasible sure, but not a hard requirement
They likely are, but that doesnt explicitly mean 5th Gens need them. F-15C GE & F-18E could get Aim-120Ds whils the F-22 stuck with Aim-120C5s. Loadouts are used as a balancing measure elsewhere. Like how the F-4S gets Aim-7F but the FGR2 only gets Aim-7E-2 (equivalents) because it has a marginally better FM.
It depends on HOW its modeled though. If stealth is as strong as the US mains seem to want it, there would be little point in running any ARH missile on the Typhoon.
Right, but imo, the early version should be a higher BR, and the late version shouldnt even be visible to most of the current 14.3s. The US mains seem to want it at 14.3.
That would be reasonable. but I still dont think that necessarily means it “needs” Aim-120Ds, nor does it “need” 100% max performance stealth. There is room for balancing in both loadout and how they model stealth. Heck, most top tier aircraft dont even have their RCS modeled yet, Typhoon is 10x larger than it should be.
Again, just a loud few. We also do not know the declassified RCS (only estimates) so some are going to argue far on the low end and others on the high end. 10-15 km is extreme for this, which I do not agree with for the sake of breaking balance. I also doubt that it will be added with a detection range this low.
- 6 AMRAAMs internally is not a lot. It would not be as game-breaking as you say it is.
- You argue for it to get the 120C5s, a known underwhelming missile in the current state of affairs.
- Again, almost definitely not going to have a detection range of 10-15km.
It seems to me like you just want it to be handicapped so you can enjoy your EF dominance.
The meta for close-mid range right now is high-off-bore missiles, like the MICA. How do you expect the F-22 to be effective with missiles like the 9X while stripping away some of its highest strengths? It is also (and bear with me) historically accurate. This isn’t even knit picking or one of those “buff Abrams armor” type posts, it is a major feature that at least a late variant received in a key point of its recent upgrade.
Everyone wants their own nation to play stronger — you are no stranger to this yourself, considering how much you mention it would nerf the EF’s effectiveness. Gaijin will obviously not model it as extreme as you portray it as, because games need balance.
Yes, hence exactly what I just said. 15.7. The early version could probably sit with most other 5th gens added if it gets some of the handicaps you advocate for.
So let me get this straight. You want the F-22 to have relatively weak stealth, no HMD, AIM-120C5s, and still not be able to see most 14.3s? You can’t have it both ways.
This goes for most aircraft in general. I believe the Super Hornet suffers the same fate (correct me if I’m wrong though).
I am going to stay with my original point. The F-22 should have an early and late variant, both with different weaponry and the latter with an HMD, and the early variant should sit with most 5th gens while the late is 0.3 BR higher. Top tier is highly reliant on missiles, and without missiles, you don’t have much of a competitive aircraft. I see no reason for the F-22 to sit at a higher BR if it is modeled properly with a proper load out and HMD.
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I think the RCS should be treated like a balancing mechanic and not a realism thing anyway, Tune it to a point where its meaningful, but balanced.
That is not an unreasonable amount either.
Yes… But it depends on the stealth though, If it has a massive advantage in BVR then having weaker missiles would offset that advantage.
Or perhaps im enjoying a reasonably balanced top tier instead of the hellhole that 2023 was with F-16 and Mig-29s just steamrolling the Tornado F3.
I dont know why US need to be meta for top tier to be considered balanced?
Big assumption it will get IIR, they might not even be added.
and ASRAAM is historically accurate for the Typhoon.
and the F-22 entered service long before Aim-9X did
its Gaijin, who knows. They’ve artifially nerfed the Typhoon a number of times already.
And exactly my point if stealth is tuned to be too strong… How is that any different. As it would render ARH missiles unusable at top tier
We’re on the same page here. You’re saying you disagree but then agree with what I’ve said, twice now.
It’s a pretty big handicap, especially if it only gets 120C5s. This would pretty much make its ARH missiles useless and you’d be better off losing the dead weight by just taking fox-2s.
Again, it won’t have a massive advantage because it is coming with a ton of other stealth planes. This isn’t adding the F-22 in the current state of affairs, this is adding it while everyone else gets missiles and planes to compete. Artificially nerfing it to below everything else in the proposed BR is nothing but a cheap shot. This isn’t “offsetting an advantage” it’s killing any potential for BVR — which is the whole point of stealth.
Reasonably balanced, while it has the second highest KDR of any 14.3, only beat by the known powerhouse of the Rafale with 8 50G fox-3s? It’s fine where it is — it doesn’t need a nerf in performance by any means, but to say it’s on par with the likes of the F-15C GE or the Super Hornet is just straight up false. This isn’t 2023 either — planes will be added to compete, because Gaijin knows there will be outrage if the game is broken (BMPTs and T58s have countless threads on them, all agreeing they need nerfs). The only difference is that it’s not a premium, so it will be adjusted properly.
It shouldn’t be meta if it’s a higher BR. Ideally, you shouldn’t be facing it or having on your team most/every match. It just shouldn’t be handicapped to the extent that you say.
Yeah, and 28 GBU-53s is historically accurate for the strike eagle. Does this mean it would be balanced? No!
Things will be implemented as other nations receive equivalents or counters. A good example is all the new SPAA added to counter the CAS problem, being added to every nation.
I believe next gen missile include IR missiles. I’d be surprised if they kept 9Ms. Things will get added when they are balanced. If you want to go full historical, the F-22s BR should be 14.3, the concept 3 should be 11.7, and late war german tanks should break down every 10 minutes with hard ammo caps. None of these are good ideas for balance.
War thunder is semi historical, in the sense that it implements what it sees as reasonable, in a balanced manner, to the best of their ability. This includes major features, such as HMD. No HMD for the F-22 is just an unnecessary handicap at the BR it will likely sit at. I’m sure your beloved Eurofighter will not be excluded from net gen missiles.
It’s also the second best performing plane in game, despite all the nerfs. To say it’s going to be virtually invisible while carrying insanely overpowered missiles and regularly facing 14.3s is nothing but lies. You are fearmongering yourself.
It likely won’t be tuned to be too strong, because games need balance. Cue next gen missiles and more powerful radars by the way, one’s that will make sure ARHs aren’t useless.
So much of what you’ve said here is just rooted in “what if it’s too powerful” so you resort to cutting off its arms and legs. A company as large as Gaijin will probably not make worse decisions than one user on the forums. We are both speculating here, yes, but your ideas are just blatantly unreasonable. Isn’t the UK going to receive F-35s when the update drops anyway? Should that get 120C5s as well? 9Ms? No nation is going to have an upper hand without getting a BR nerf, because balance is how you keep players happy, and consequently, to pay money so your company can stay afloat.
Unless you can say something of substance other than a whataboutism, I’m not going to reply further.
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Why does Britain have to be meta though? Realisticly R-77M Su-57 with LDIRCM is going to be meta anyways when gen 5 comes
If all Gen 5s had slightly weaker missiles than Gen 4.5s. It would aid the potential imbalance it would cause.
Except… its not.
Britain’s Typhoon does quite well in the stats because it rarely faces the Rafale. Thats it, thats all that is really going for it to put it above the German and Italian Typhoons so much. If you go by statshark. The F-15C GE is actually doing better than nearly all of the Typhoons.
So… to be honest. Minus the OP nature of the MICA EM… Top tier isnt too far off balanced at the moment, only nation that has a right to be pissed is Israel.
You mean like How Soyuz is a higher BR but totally ruins top tier naval for even 7.7s that are a full BR lower?
You mean like how Gaijin added the F-16C with 9Ms before all nations got Gen 4s or when the F-15C/E just steamrolled for months? Or when the F-14 prevented many aircraft from ebing able to climb for like a year?
Based upon rumours. Update afterwards, and its the F-35B, weakest of the 3, and the F-35 isnt good aircraft anyway.
False. 2005 vs 2003
Thought the F-22 was a few years earlier than that. My bad on that then.
So its no different to the Typhoon then. ASRAAM 1998, Typhoon 2003