This ones a little iffy. I agree with the premise. I don’t want to see the Pz.IV J get stuck playing second fiddle to the Pz.IV H. But it’s hard for me to say if the reduced turret traverse is enough to completely offset having the Pz.IV H’s armor and gun a BR step lower.
One possibility is potentially to nerf the Pz.IV J’s turret traverse even further so that it can stay at its BR and practically become a Germany M10 that can’t be overpressured. Historically, you’re looking at about 3~4°/s, though we could be generous for gameplay purpose and give it a bit more, maybe 6~8°/s.
It would be a harsh nerf, but at least then you have the choice to not use it, and just go with the Ausf.G at the same BR.
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The J is arguably one of the worst. The lack of power turret rotation is crippling.
Should never have been rated same BR as H. It’s a pure downgrade.
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Isn’t this one of those tanks that has conflicting sources?
I’ve seen figures for what we have now and this exact article.
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Their armour differences make little difference as their opponents will pen 90% of the time anyway.
The 57 post pen is lower. But it’s still certainly good enough to one shot 90% of the time, and the follow up shot comes before the opponent has had enough time to react anyways.
The stab and depression certainly are in favour of the Sherman, but the mobility and smaller size of the T-34 makes it much more easy to flank. So no, I don’t think its advantages are enough to justify a difference in BR.
We can agree to disagree on this one. :)
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@Smin1080p_WT Both premium Su-30’s in the Russian and Chinese TT’s need to go up, to place it at the same level as the Kfir C.10 when it has 3x the amount of missiles that have better performance is illogical. I own both of these vehicles, I get that they are payed products but it’s Pay-to-Win given the matchmaker it gets put in most of the time. Please fix this.
3 Likes
Devs, please consider a BR reduction for the Tornado IDS WTD61.
At the current level of changes, the other tornado variants that were reduced in BR, have higher capabilities than it, especially in air to ground, on the same 11.3 BR in Realistic.
Either give the WTD61 the same guided ordnance as the other Tornadoes at the same BR, given that this test unit, and this aircraft was responsible for testing the ordnance and the upgrades that would become the ASSTA1 program, or make it at a lower BR given the fact that it is very limited in ordnance.
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IS-1
5.7 → 5.3
When driven in reverse the armor isn’t much better than the KV-85 and it can’t do anything to the 6.7 tanks. The cupola also prevents it from being too strong and serves as a reliable weakspot in downtiers.
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Tiger H1
5.7 → 5.3
The tech tree version doesn’t have the extra armor of the pack variants and it’s overall a really mid tank. The cupola is massive and easy to hit like the one on the IS-1.
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IS-2
6.3 → 6.0
This tanks has nothing going for it and should have never moved up
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Ig there could be conflicting values when it comes to manual traverse. I’d have to look for some more books covering it.
Rome wasn’t built in a day
IS-2 1944
6.7 → 6.3
It’s outclassed in every way that counts by the other 6.7 tanks and it wasn’t even good at 6.3. Even in a full downtier the armor is unreliable and the insane reload severely handicaps it.
4 Likes
Hu?
The only A2G weapons the ASSTA1, 1995 and GR1 have over the WTD61 is guided weapons which have basically no value in ARB. I personally only run unguided bombs on both the GR1 and GR4. Within the context of ARB they are identical in performance and so should be the same BR.
In GRB, where that difference actually matters, the WTD61 is 10.0 vs the ASSTA1 being at 11.3
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Rooikat Mk1D
BR change: none
Remove the 25mm spall damage and add the large caliber spall modifier. This tank is unusable with it’s lack of damage.
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Vehicle: M4A3 (105) (all nations)
BR Change: 3.0 → 3.3 (GRB)
Reason: While it’s nice to see that the change was made in AB, it really needs to be carried over to RB as well. While yes, howitzers are generally harder to use in RB, the M4A3 (105) has the armor and mobility to close the distance. With the Pz IV and others going up in BR, it is especially important that the M4A3 (105) also go up a notch too. The Panzer IV with its very powerful gun was one of the main counters to the M4A3 (105) and helped keep the tank in check.
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because, if you move up the things that are undertiered that are causing this compression, all of a sudden the etendard is perfectly fine. It’s like saying the Swift, or the G.91s, or the Javelin, or any other minor nation jet is “overtiered” when in reality its just that F86s and MiGs are UNDERtiered as are the 9.3 supersonics. The Etendard is perfectly comparable and a peer to the normal 9.0s that should actually be present at that BR and that are still there such as the F-86K
such as? I am considering the Etendard’s entire plane, not just the fact it gets sidewinders.
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Vehicle: AMX-13-M24
Rank Change: 2 → 3
Reason: As this tank is so similar to the M24 Chaffee and is following it with the BR increase, I feel it would be most appropriate to move this to rank III like the M24 Chaffee is.
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You did not do a good job of explaining why the Tiger H deserves to be undertiered when all you use to explain why is compare it to a 6.0 Tiger. The Tiger Cupola also doesn’t usually take real damage when shot.
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Although turret traverse can be treated as a “soft” stat and adjusted for balance at a given tier, I don’t think that approach works for the Pz. IV J. The reason is simple: Pz. IVs are already outclassed at their tiers. They possess weak flat armor (no volumetric), reduced mobility due to add-on armor, and only average gun handling especially when compared to contemporaries like the T-34 and the M4 Sherman.
The only real strength the Pz. IV J has is its armament, it’s the one aspect the vehicle can reliably depend on. Even with a sluggish 10°/s (aced) turret traverse, it can still fulfill the role of a medium tank, albeit imperfectly by laying its gun onto target. Reducing that traverse further would significantly hinder its effectiveness, essentially relegating it to a makeshift tank destroyer rather than a true medium.
As it stands, the current turret traverse feels like a fair compromise for its battle rating. The J variant should consistently sit a step below the H variant (wherever it may be placed in-game), rather than be further penalized through additional nerfs.
3 Likes