In an ideal world, the M4A3 would be at a higher BR then the Tiger, since the APCR can penetratet the Tiger pretty much from any range and angle and the M4A3 beats the Tiger in every category except overall armor protection.
In fact the M4A3 could be at the same BR as the Tiger II H since the APCR would just be such a boost in firepower.
It’s just that WT has taught us that you need a 122mm APHE shell to have a chance to destroy a Tiger II H.
What
Because cope and “armor is op”
For this, people have called out gunner optics being a likely cause.
In a very recent game on seversk, I even had the chance to test it out and yup, gunner optics can create magic.
Scenario: Centurion MK1 with mk8 shot (190 mm flat, 140 mm 30 degrees) shooting VK 3002 on mantlet.
Shot to the right side of the mantlet (or shoot left side from my perspective): Clean penetration, kills turret crew bar gunner and destroys breech.
Tank is immobile, not moving, not adjusting turret, nothing. Same angle, same elevation everything onto the other side of the turret to clean things up.
No penetration.
Try again, no penetration.
Shoot the side without gunner sight and it’s a kill.
This explains a lot of times I died to fighting panthers with APDS and other guns that should shoot clean through the mantlet: the side with the gunner optic is cursed. Lesson: shoot the opticless side.
Edit: Also server desync seems to matter a lot.
I checked replay and it seems I aimed lower according to the server than where I had my own cursor.
Edit 2: It seems like a not uncommon problem.
You look like you’re aiming for X on your screen/local recording while the server-side recording says you’re aiming elsewhere.
This reddit post shows it happening:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/1cq3fqu/server_desync_making_you_miss_is_cool_ig/
Except when you change the gameplay so that T-34s and KV-1s are practically blind while driving, unless their commander is looking outside the hatch, which is a problem because the commander is also the gunner. When they stop they can look around with their periscopes, which makes it incredible difficult to aquire targets.
The know there’s an enemy because they would get shot first, then look around, then try to aim the gun, while having no clue what else is going on.
Of course they can rely on their incredible armor but there are way more T-26s and BT-5s, later T-60s, that are also fighting the same battles.
Your Pz 38(t) doesn’t need to fight T-34 or KV-1s but it can scout them and have TDs and Pz IIIs take care of them.
So it all depends “how realistic” you want the game to be.
The game allows your tank do things that wouldn’t be possible in real life. Like look around in binocular view in your 1-crew turret, reload the gun, traverse the turret or even reload your coaxial at the same time.
Test it or just accept it once it’s in place?
So assuming we are all having fun in this game ,Hence why we all play it ,why do we need this change?
The testing is coming to the live server after that there will be a voting for it
Balancing, make the game stick more to it’s title of being a realistic representation of combined arms battles, plus the point that seems noone care about is the Br changes that will come for alot of vehicles that have good guns with weak armour or mobility or the opposite, will change the playing style a little bit but from what i can see the APHE is still a good round even after the nerf.
Do you think it will lead to a huge round of BR changes? Is everybody going to lose all their line ups?
And from reading everyone opinions and examples specifically about Tigers and Panthers, i have one question if defeating Tigers and Panthers is so ez on alot of players here specially the ones scared of losing the couple weak spot on Tiger 2, Panthers and Tiger E, why then everyone cried about them being op from what i can see they are easy to defeat by hitting the couple or the armour under the skirt of the Tiger or the sides of Panthers, they have worse armour profile (comparing Tiger E to Jumbo and Tiger 2 to American T34), worse mobility, ofc good fire power only worth it at snipping in maps that doesn’t support it ofc and reward bawling or flanking, in what was these tanks deemed op bc from what i can see they don’t deserve the BR rasing everyone cried for
People often call for stuff they fight against unfair and demand it to have its BR increased.
The people who call for this stuff might not overlap with the people who consider fighting tigers and panthers easy.
This is a common issue in digital social groups - assumption of one side’s opinion being shared by an adjacent side.
Personally I find T-34s and ISes far scarier than tigers and panthers because of the rounded armour making APDS suffer much more than tigers and panthers.
No ppl won’t lose their line ups most likely they will gain more tanks to fill the already line ups thay have bc keep in mind the change of APHE won’t effect all tanks equally bc tanks with big calibers 88mm and above they will still have nuke rounds bc of the big filling since over pressure won’t change plus their AP post pen will be buffed, the tanks that will be effected are TD with small calibers (every thing under 85mm) amd medium tanks that have good guns but weak armour T-34s, things like Pz4 and Pz3, early heavy tanks might actually get their br increased actually since they will be more tanky.
Hardly surprising so many felt it simply wasn’t worth it.A lot of hassle for the casual player.
Ppl see what they will lose and get scared they will never see what will they gain, as long as their hand is grasping on the small advantages they have, they won’t let go not knowing that they might gain more from the changes, but eather way sooner or later something will change and the balance they know will be thrown and they will be forced to Adapt
I understand what you mean but you could apply the same logic to the maps and look what happened there.
And that’s what I mean by “too little damage”, it’s already too many shots required to kill a tank, further reducing the damage will make the situation worse, the game will fill more like an arcade.
If 1 shot to kill a tank is too many, then I give up.
Even with solid shot, you can easily one-hit kill a tiger when shooting from the right spot.
And if not, you’ve crippled it and it cannot fight back and likely cannot even run away.
Most you’ll need to kill a tank assuming you can penetrate vital areas is 2 shots, 3 if you can only see a minimal area and need to repeatedly murder the gunner/driver.
The only things that need more shots are SPAAs/milk trucks if you don’t have a 50 cal or HE.
That is a seperate issue.
It’s bad argument that APHE should stay the way it is because other rounds are much less likely to take out a vehicle.
APHE should behave in a physically accurate way. How kill mechanics should change to make every round more reliable is another topic.
APCR also doesn’t behave like it should, but it’s not overperforming like APHE, so changing it wouldn’t necessarily make it better.
But it also shouldn’t need to be any better just so it can take out more crews.
Instead we need to think what needs to change that the damage is already good enough to reliable take out a tank, instead of merely damaging it (potentially not even affecting it’s ability to fight).
Overpressure for the most part is unrealistic. Instead of killing all crews, most of the time it would only affect crew in the hull or the turret. But when the turret crew gets wiped, why should the tank still be able to fight, just because the hull MG gunner could theoretically climb into the turret and operate it by himself in the most inefficent way possible?
The idea of a Tiger, or any other tank, being crewed by just the driver and another crew member operating the turret on his own, while the dead bodies of the original crew lay on the turret floor, is laughable.
Gaijin modifies the game the opposite direction, for example, they made a gun disabling less likely, it will rather get a red crit instead of black and will still be able to fire. It’s a trend, and no wonder that now Gaijin decided to weaken the only shell still able to deal reliable damage.
Doesn’t it already feel like an arcade when APHE behaves like a sphere of death?