From my very basic understanding of metallurgy, shouldn’t high hardness armor spall more, not less? After all, making armor harder also makes it more brittle. This is the thing than came back to bite the Soviets quite severely during WW2, where even non-penetrating hits would cause lethal spalling for the crews.
I understand the mechanics of it might be a little different for APFSDS, but surely we would see the same trend between high hardness and standard rolled armor.
I haven’t noticed BMP-3 cause no one plays it.
The only BMPs I notice today are 1s.
2Ms are gone, never spotted a 3, normal 2s must’ve been a year ago, BMD-4s are definitely over a year ago.
They just don’t get used anywhere near as often as other tech tree IFVs.
@Aegis270
IDK, but you can see the less spalling even on UFP of Ariete, the thickest [40mm] HHRA plate I’ve found off of Soviets. Haven’t found another 70mm HHRA that isn’t on a Soviet tank.
Yea because the bmp3 is a shit show
The br is Always increasing recently moved from 8.7 to 9.0
The main gun got changed to the 30mm
So you can’t aim the 100mm and use the 30mm on the same time
The 100mm has low velocity and DMG becouse he only (so aiming for weak spot is critical which made this vehicle work wen it came out)
Or you fire Missiles which give a 23 second reload
the number of missiles is capped
The 30mm is a slow firing one instead of the fast firing variants the bmp2 gets
Despite that no darts just regular apds
Mobility and Agility is not amazing but it’s by far the best aspect of this vehicle
This is IMO siple case, GJ modeled T-series tanks quite accurately, then found out, like real T-tanks they toss the turrets regularly once hull is penetrated. Which is not good for gameplay.
So they needed some solution which would not be like decreasing ignition chance of cartridges.
So the solution was to reduce spalling of HHA so there is not enough fragments to ignite the carousel ammo. And they overdone it a bit.
What I saw some research papers the resistance of HHA is about 10% better then RHA, so such high spalling cone reduction seem highly unlikely.
Doesn’t high hardness Armor actually produce way more spall
Because Very hard objekts tend to shatter instead of deforming
Looking at stuff like the gorilla glass for smart phones which resist all forms of Cutting but shatters if dropped
Or the overheat treated t-34 armor
Nope. HHRA isn’t just on Soviet tanks, it’s on Ariete, Centauro, and others.
So your theory is wrong.
Gaijin doesn’t make ahistorical changes, there’s always something real they model off of.
I’m not into metallurgy, and I haven’t found many other tanks that use HHRA, but it’s possible this is accurate.
@meki98
Too brittle could may break into less chunks, especially the thicker it is.
Which if true could explain why 20mm HHRA spalls more than 40mm & 70mm HHRA.
20mm HHRA spalls as much as RHA.
I would love to see some advanced simulation comparing spalling of HHA and RHA as some guys here can do on university workstations.
And? So you buff a bit one paper armor vehicle and worst TT MBT in game in process.
I had to laugh for a quite while. I can point many many GJ implementations which are obviously “ahistorical” and it can be proved easily.
It is possible it is accurate but I don’t believe it till I see some evidence/devblog/research paper how the HHA spall so little.
Also if it is so great why almost nobody use it as well?
From my perspective, GJ buffed T-80 tanks with minor side effect in form od Centauro etc.
I think you should value him. If you don’t you underestimate him, and then you’re even less likely to formulate a report that considers him as an audience, and your more likely to be denied.
Are you claiming the T-80BVM has armor that only “exists on paper”? You need to substantiate that claim, do you have schematics saying the hull is thinner, or comprised of a different type of steel?
There’s a difference though between an approximation to realism, and completely abandoning realistic representation. In other words giving the BVM the armor it has now vs giving it a 1mm aluminum hull or a fully composite hull with NERA that never existed all around it.
The real question should be: “is the composition of the T-80BVM’s hull both accurate and balanced?” If not, why. If not, can it be balanced in such a way that it’s still competitive?
Well he’s the one who made bug report useless at the begin with case of AGM-65D are best example also Leclerc armor all of these are “work as intended.” according to him i don’t know what he up to anymore.
Cause HHRA is expensive.
T-80s were USSR’s most expensive tanks for a reason.
Not only that. engine and all its systems are also more expensive
Russian bias is everywhere in this game made first by russian devs for russian players. Everything in this game is russian bias : the maps, the vehicles, the br of the vehicles, the perf of the vehicles…
And even if the perf of russian vehicles were based on official documents… what documents, tell me? Same kind of documents that gave the russian army winner over their neighbors within a few days, a few years ago?
This game is such a gross and pathetic russian bias carnival propaganda, but lets take it with fun because it is only a game that we are talking about…
All maps are flat?
Amazing post honestly.
Even dry stowage shermans got a massive buff from not packing every cubic mm of space with ammo.
But thats not really whats discussed, t80 has massive discrepancy in explosion rate assuming the ammo is hit. So ammo hit vs ammo not hit is irrelevant
But actually no.
just because they play terrible dosent change the bias debate
