So far I have very limited experience with Fox-3 gameplay in Sim EC: I’ve only flown a few missions in the JA37DI and the Kfir C.10 (…and Tomcats - but the AIM-54 isn’t quite comparable to AMRAAMs & co.), and have not come to even start to feel at home with the style of Fox-3 gameplay…
What I did however is hear a lot about missile vs. missile gameplay, “Iron Dome” etc.
Atm I feel quite at home and confident in “Fox-1 country”, up to say 12.0, 12.3 maximum, but wonder if 13.0 and higher will be a BR for me to get into as well…
So my questions for you guys who may already have more experience with BR 13.0+ gameplay in Sim EC:
Is it something you’d find worthwhile exploring?
Is smart tactical gameplay, use of map and topography etc. still feasible and fun - or does it basically just consist of missile jousting with near zero tactical finesse?
Very good and fair question, and may well be that I’m very wrong about my first impressions, and that’s actually the base reason for this thread here.
Well, as I said, when I did my few F3 steps, those weapons were very new, and people still needed to learn how to work with them. The feeling I get - from second hand information mostly admittedly - is that it’s mainly a point&click kinda gameplay, with the two opponents slinging everything they have at teach other, defeating each others missiles, and the winner often determined not by tactical skill, but sheer numbers (of missiles).
The gameplay I however prefer myself is very much based on tactics, smart use of sensors (and knowing when not to use them) to get into advantageous situations, use of the landscape e.g. both in A/A and A/G roles.
Maybe my question can be summed up by that oversimplification here:
I like to play Tornado Gr.1 and F.3… Will I also enjoy F.3 late?
I cant offer my opinion on how FOX-3 gameplay looks in sim, but for ARB i can say that tactics are very much involved, at least the way i play it.
See, MCM has several issues. It isnt 100% reliable, you expend limited resource (missiles) instead of one you have more of (chaff), there isnt parity in missile count between top tier planes and most importantly, how many planes can you MCM to death before you out of missiles?
Like sure, you MCM one plane to death, but what will be your gameplan once second plane accquires lock?
Im not saying Fox-3 gameplay is flaweless but from my experience (or at least how i play it), it is very much about situational awarness, ie. manuevering into most advantageous position for attack so i dont have to resort to MCM or allow enemy to MCM my missiles. Also from my experience MCM is limited mostly to AESA radars and high missile count so 14.3/14.7 and even then, while it happens, it isnt every game.
Plus the jets are hella fun.
Tho i acknowledge all of this will be of any use to you, since it isnt sim related. Just putting my two cents out there.
Thanks @Beeschurger, that helps already, and the fact that you mention tactics are very well involved in ARB, I’d assume in ASB that will be even more the case, hehe!
As to how/ and where to start, would starting directly at 13.0 with the Viggen and Kfir I have (or also the F-4F ICE, Tornado F.3 late, AV-8B+,…) at hat BR be a reasonable start, or better get a “better” airframe for it like one of the Vipers?
Note: no right or wrong here, I’m feeling for opinions and experiences, not “hard facts”… ;-)
Oh, another, very simple but for me relevant question: Is A/G warfare (bases, ground battles) still a thing in high tier Sim EC, or is Air-to-Air the main thing people play?
My biggest issue with the gameplay, and the main reason why Ive not really touched much with the higher BRs, is that the maps are too small. Due to the speed of the aircraft, the performance of the radars and the range of the weapons.
You take off, and before you have even really retracted your landing gear, you are in combat, and not even necessarily against someone anywhere near your spawn.
That pace destroys the enjoyment for me of what Sim should be, a slower pace gamemode, if I wanted to play something fast paced. Id play ARB.
This is one of the core reason why I stopped playing the M-Scan last year, before MCM was such a big thing, and even now with the E-Scan fixing a LOT of the issues with the Typhoon, ive got no motivation to get back into it because the underlying gameplay has the same issues.
Tbh, ive also stopped playing ASB entirely at all BRs, due to the lack of maps, or any updates to the gameplay loops, was excited to get ARM and hoped that would add a new reason to play ASB again, but instead they rendered ARM basically unusable within ARB/ASB
This leads into the main reason why I like a slower pace gamemode, you just have no time to do anything like this. Running A2G on something like the Typhoon just nerfs yourself, and the gameplay of dropping GNSS bombs onto static targets can be found at lower BRs. Any other weapon than the PW4 is just not worth ever running. Having identical gameplay loops as the Tornado GR1 also kinda sucks, if you want to do A2G at higher BR.
If we ever get SB NE, on the full size map. I might dust off the Typhoon again.
No. Maybe if it was 13.0 alongside the F4F ICE and so in the 12.0-13.0 bracket, but vs the Su-30 premiums you are totally DOA at 13.3. Not a huge amount you can do vs a competent Su-33 either tbh. Especially with the outstanding F3 issues.
Could definetly see it being a fun aircraft, but needs decompression and the right fixes.
Ive played a little FA2 at 13.0, and its okay, but compression kinda sucks, because there isnt much you can do against an F4F ICE
With decompression (and a host of bug fixes) the FA2 could be more fun.
Italian AV-8B+ or Viggen DI on redfor side, would probably be your best bet for a soft entry into the fox-3 BRs. Though the Kfir C10 with its AESA does give you a notable advantage that probably offsets that.
Su-30 Premiums basically ruined anything on bluefor at 13.3 imo.
Ive not played anything else in that bracket between the FA2, F3 Late and the Typhoons. Gripen C ive not really played since it was Fox-2 only (Mostly because i stopped playing ASB entirely around the time it finally got a bracket where it wasnt just a straight downgrade to the Typhoon) , nor have i played the F-18s.
MCM in my experience happens whenever i play 14.0/13.7 to 14.7, though in BR brackets like 13.0-14.0 or 13.3 to 14.0 or 12.7/13.0-13.7, i have rarely encountered players using MCM (though it still does happen)
Dogfights are still a thing in 13.3/13.0 -14.0 bracket that’s why i really love F-18C late, As for the gameplay, it usually goes like, you fire, enemy fire, both notch, if he failed, he dies, if not, you get closer and the fire, notch again and keep doing so until you both start to dogfight (if no one else interrupts both of you)
If you want to try Fox-3 without MCM, then i would recommend you to play any br bracket of 13.0-14.0
As someone who very often play sim above 13.0 br i can tell that HOBS tactics are very much more usable than in ARB, basically the entire thing is around letting your enemy close while staying in a safer position not going straight headon with fox3s against fox3 carriers, also you have to memorize your radar contacts for example with a rafale because you only have 70 gimball while gripen typhoons, su30sm2s have over 100 degree, so you have to play around that . I dont know how to explain it well, but you should use your advantages which differs for each aircraft, with small aircraft you just can multipath, while with robust jets like Sukhois and typhoons you have to play around altitute, managing energy and avoiding merge as much as possible, for a small craft like the M2000F5 and geipen C-E you need to abuse rat playstyle low altitude and abusing the unexpected.