If the vehicle is functionally different in game, it’s not really copy-paste.
Would you call the STRV-122s all copy paste? Especially when most, if not all, they have been thoroughly modified and have relative advantages in key areas.
That’s very close to what Ukraine does with Soviet-stock equipment.
Apart from producing their own stuff.
And having soviet-stock equipment we don’t have in game.
And vehicle types* we don’t have in game at all.
*Objectively (I consider an MRAP or BRDM with an ATGM system mounted different than what is available)
In some aspects, I would consider the modification done to Soviet-stock equipment even more extensive and/or effective than the modification done to Leopards serving as STRV-122s.
New engines, armour, transmissions, sights and ammunition.
A whole lot.
Maybe it would be fruitful to make a seperate post about the alleged “copy paste” in this same area of the forum as it is constantly being raised as a point of contention?
sorry for my english
You are very wrong. Ukraine developed and modified a lot of equipment, for example: T-55AGM, BVMP-64 (there are many versions of this BMP), BVMP-84, T-72-120 and so on. Yes, the equipment was in small copies, but its variety is very rich.
Ukraine tech tree would be hella interesting, especially since they currently have a tank of every country including captured Russian ones. They’ve also done a lot of modifications to their existing platforms including ERA packages to Western tanks they’ve received.
There’s also new 2023 variants of the T-72, T-80, and T-90 for Russia, but most of them are just cope cage upgrades.
Calm down boiz. Opinions are okay, we won’t all agree to the historical/political aspects so be careful to not get yourselves banned/flagged. Please keep it peaceful.
Soviet Union vehicles used by Ukraine are acceptable as other nations like Israel, Italy, etc. use a decent amount of U.S. vehicles/derivatives or similar situations for other nations. It’s just about moderation.
On a side note to address these concerns, I’m working on a tree with @HIMARS_Enjoyer which focuses on eliminating some clones to focus on indigenous vehicles however, some clones will be used as they were utilized since the founding of post-Soviet Ukraine or to add some diversity due to Ukraine’s receiving of Western equipment. Starting Rank adjustments will also be made as well or at least experimented with i.e. Rank V.
I also will be looking at more modern SPH’s capabilities that could be added in-game later such as an actual artillery mechanic and how that would affect the BR’s of all these vehicles.
I would set the t-64e to either 10.7 or 11.0. His Duplet stands like on the BM Oplot. And the T-72mp has a knife. Plus added t-72AV as well as 72AG and AGM.
And perhaps I would add captured tanks. t-72b3 of different years, t-90a, t-80bvm, t-90am and m. In regimental equipment, for example. But this will cause many problems.
That is indeed an option. But on the other hand T-90M is totally unneeded in the tree, even as pack\premium vehicle because Oplot is technically better, so drama is easily avoidable.
T-90a also adds nothing over T-72B3 and is better suited to be another meme pack in US tree.
Trophy Т-72B3’s on the other hand, make a non-insignificant part of current AFU tank park so IMO it could be a paid\squad option, for those who want it.
Agree). Yes, and the T-90 meme is, of course, funny, but after Brihma, it seems that nothing is impossible). And Ukraine, unlike the United States, can operate these machines, and there are already quite a lot of the same T-90A and 80bvm. It could be entered for quantity, but I doubt that the developers would take such a step.
To be honest, I would completely separate the American-European server from the Russian one and then there would be no problems).
Unfortunately ground drones are a no go for Gaijin unless its an April Fools event or something. However, they’re going to have to change that opinion as many country’s shift to autonomous/remote control weapon systems. I’m all in for it.
I’m making sure this is bold as possible… THIS IS HARDLY COMPLETE or in other words…MAJOR WIP
Just thought I’d share to show I’m working on something. Also worth noting there is a 6th line of Self-propelled Howitzers and MLRS (which is also incomplete). This is just an experiment that assumes Gaijin has added a Artillery mechanic of some type in the future. The reason why the SPH BR’s are a lot higher than in-game is that the type of round as well as the arc of it impacting most vehicles would result in a kill or decent damage at minimum. A lot of work is left to make this transition smoother. If you guys have ideas please share. This tree was designed to remove donations (at least for the time being), but I do have ideas on how to implement some of them. The ones I’m specifically looking at are: Leopard 2A6, Leopard 2A4, Leopard 2A4 (with ERA), Leopard 1A5DK, Gepard 1A2, Marder 1A3, T-72EA, T-72M1, M-55S, and possibly but not so likely the M1A1 (TUSK I), M2A2 ODS-SA, PT-91 Twardy, and T-72M1R (but these are pushing it, I will not oversaturate the tree with multiple nation’s tanks). I’m open to these because it’s a lot easier to transition them since I can make a limited branch of them. This was to focus on indigenous vehicles. I want to change some things up yet, an example being move the T-72-120 to the main tree, likely separated but after the Bulat since the 120mm gun can use a lot of different munitions, not to mention the bustle autoloader increases survivability tenfold. Another major difference is having the advanced T-64’s moved to the line after the T-72AMT but separated. This was done to not overwhelm the 3rd line of vehicles. BMPT Strazh and BMPT-62 positions are not firm and will likely be moved. I removed some of the more “debated” vehicles but I will say, vehicles like the T-72A, T-62, T-55/T-54, etc. are fair game as Ukraine had inherited a stock of them at the inception of its modern independence, but just because it’s available doesn’t mean I’m going to add them. Not to mention, early variants of the T-84 would be nice. FrankenSAM’s will also be added as more information is available. Also to vent, Rank V/VI MBT’s (there positions, the BR, the type they are, etc.) are driving me insane rn.
Lastly: Everything is subject to change! This includes vehicles, there BR/position, and the extra 6th line. The point of this post was to show you guys there is something going on. You all deserve it, especially since we’re at over 3,500 votes. It’s the least I can do.
IMO T-55AM (maybe even both with T-55A) can be replaced with Т-55AGM since it’s more unique (different engine and 125mm gun).
I removed some of the more “debated” vehicles
Just a personal opinion - western vehicles should be there too. Gepard, Paladin, ASRAAM launcher - they are already inseparable part of Ukrainian forces. This also gives more options for progression (part between T-72’s and Bulat is weird - Twardy asks to be right there)
Also there’s no point in adjusting the tree to people who don’t want Independent Ukrainian tree regardless. They don’t want it with western vehicles, they don’t want it with KhKBM vehicles, they don’t want it with new vehicles that appeared in the last two years. All they want is Oplot to strengthen their USSR lineup and a few more funny tanks, without any mention of Ukraine or AFU insignias ofc.
“I’m not against Ukrainian tree BUT” crowd will never be happy, because they want only crippled down version of the tree, so the tree should include all possible options and devs can decide what they want later.
So I don’t think that bending this tree to the tastes of obvious haters is the right way.
The T-55AGM is in the tree, or at least a variant of it. The T-55M8-A2 Tifon II is a modification of the AGM specifically for Peru (only in trials). I picked this for the squadron vehicle to follow the flow of other nations and to highlight Ukraine’s export capability. Other vehicles like this include the Kazakh T-72UMG, Thai BTR-3RK, etc.
There will post for a Western-equipped version as well. This is just a rough draft to focus on Ukraine’s indigenous vehicles because, the main issue, it’s pretty hard to adapt to Gaijin’s 3x vehicles per rank/line so I figured I would hit the indigenous equipment.
I intentionally made the line disappear between the T-72AMT and T-64B1M to signify they’re not related, it’s just to allow for even spread of all the MBT. That way when you get to Rank VII and don’t want to research the T-72’s there, you have the option to continue your research of T-64 variants without having to do the T-72AMT and T-72UA1. The line will also change when more information is found on the T-72AMT zr. 2022/2023 version i.e. if it has thermals, etc.
Rank IV could also make a comeback, just testing things. There are vehicles within that rank that are a core component of development history, we’ll see how things go. Experimental.
Additional note/off topic note, the SPH/MLRS will only work if the maps that we currently have as well as future maps are expanded to allow for high-arching gameplay for SPH/MLRS as well as some mechanic to use them effectively for supporting teammates (or obliterating them) from long distance.
Also, an interactive tree link with pictures would be nice kind of like the air tree suggestion. I’ll work on that.
