Ukraine Ground Forces Tree

[Suppiee]

@skipSVK

Isreal is an example how bad it is to add nation with few unique vehicles. Same story is Ukraine, Jugoslavia, Czechoslovakia etc. Sweden is one of the potent trees.
Ukraine until 1990 has shared all vehicles with Soviets, this tree we have in the game allready, and the 6 new vehicles want make the tree any better.

But the tree doesnt follow a historical order of vehicles, even if it should…
The BTR-94 AA vehicle, the second in the line, and at rank V, was “produced from 1999 to 2000”.
So even though Ukraine might have shared the same soviet vehicles until it’s independence after the dissolution of the Soviet Union, this has 0 bearing on the game, or the tech tree.

Moot point. The history of Ukraine does not have any meaningful impact on the techtree in this regard, and it is simple not a straight copy paste until post 1991 vehicles. And it never will be. Come on.

There are not only “6 new vehicles”.
Even if you were to discount HEAVY indigenous Ukrainian modifications to Soviet-Base vehicles as “copy paste”, this argument would still be largely baseless
And that discount is already a heavy favour to your argument

Rank V
~BTR 94
~MT LB AT
~BTR RD
~2S9 Nona

Rank VI
~BTR 3E1
~BTR 3DA
~9K31 Strela-1
~9P148 Konkurs
~BRDM-2 Amulet
~BTR 3E FSV
~BTR70 DI
~BMD-2
~SBA Novator
~Object 432
~BM-AB-13
~MT-LB-R7

Rank VII
~BTR-4A GROM
~BTR-4E PARUS
~BTR-3RK
~Kevlar-E
~Otaman-3
~BTR-4MV1
~Object 478DU4

Rank VIII
~Osa AKM
~Azovets

All unique vehicles of Ukrainian design and/or not in game yet. Certainly not a “tree with few unique vehicles”

@skipSVK

More trees in the game with few vehicles will on make this problem to grow.

The argument here was that the lineups are lacking in size, however, even with unfinished BRs on an unfinished techtree,

6.0 - 5 Vehicles - SU-100, 2S1, MT-LB-23, IS-2, T-34-85.
6.7 - 4 Vehicles - 2S3M1, BTR-94, T-44, BRM-1K.
7.3 - 5 Vehicles -2S9, ZSU-57, IS-3, T-54, BMP-1P.
7.7 - 3 Vehicles - T-54-1947, T-10A, MT-LB-AT,

And this continues on for the entire tree, and of course players can mix and match their lineups.
The BMP-1P will not useless just because it sits in a 7.7 lineup.

And of course, the tech tree is comprehensive, fleshed out enough, with enough variety and unique playstyles/vehicles, where “grinding all those T-34s & T-54s up to rank 7 where there will be one Oplot and a BTR” is not the case

[_6kangn]

If we have Ukraine - we will have a tree very similar to Israel + China - mostly unoriginal copy paste vehicles - I hated playing China on both Air and Ground due to the fact that i could get the same tank on the Russian/USA/Japanese tree. The lack of original Chinese tanks till the Cold War tiers is very frustrating and boring. Ukraine tanks have same issue - largely same as other Warsaw Pact nations until the end. Same problem with many countries originating post ww2, cold war era, and post Cold War such as ROK/DPRK, Ukraine, etc. The problem is that for the most part they rely on tanks of either the West or East, and while those tanks aren’t BAD per se, it gets repetitive and boring, especially if you have been grinding either Russia/USA and then go to Ukraine/similar country’s in situation that are just the same thing over and over again

And i agree - there are much more than only 6 unique vehicles but they are derived from Soviet originals and even early on, much of them have not as many differences until we get further down tree - the early grind will heavily just be Ukrainian copy-paste vehicles with minor mods and changes until we get further down.

[Alan_Tovarishch]

Just added BM Oplot suggestion, with the most exhaustive armor study I could come up with. Come and vote.

BM Oplot: Heir from Kharkov

poll [image] At this point, this is a tank that needs almost no introduction. “BM Oplot” (Object 478DU-9) is currently the commercial name (aka “T-84M”) of the ultimate evolution of a long line of MBTs designed and produced in Kharkov. It’s the last derivative of the good old T-64, and a direct descendant and deep modification of the T-80UD. BM Oplot was designed in the first decade of the new millenium and until the appearance of T-90MS in 2013, it was undisputedly the best and most modern tan…

[Mahiwew]

I have been actively playing since update 1.47 and have been level 100 for several years.
I have grinded out the majority of the vehicles for all trees in the game and in fact play all trees in air and ground modes.
Don’t even think about “time spent gaming” elitism with me, because you will find that I am not a newbie.

And you seem to not have gotten any clue of what I said at all.
I have here a spoiler with Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia where you have a nice presentation of the vehicles that are available for these countries.
Look at Czechoslovak low tier air and their whole attacker line.
Look at Czechoslovak ground at any tier.
Look at Yugoslav air at any tier.
Look at Yugoslav ground at any tier, especially rank 4+.

Spoiler

Look at all these and have the nerve to say that these have “1-2 vehicles for each BR”.
Sure the air trees aren’t as large as some others, but guess what? You don’t need a full lineup for air battles in most cases. Even in said cases where you would need it, such as air arcade, these nations provide enough to form lineups anyways.
So no, these nations wouldn’t be "bad with a few unique vehicles. To dare claim that Sweden is a good tree and that these wouldn’t be is very counterintuitive, especially when you consider that these nations still have more potential ground additions that Sweden and Finland combined.

And you say that Gaijin should fix matchmaker and “how the game works” (whatever that is supposed to mean).
What do you think Gaijin is doing with their roadmap and with their It’s Fixed series of bug fixes.
And where do you think the money in this game comes from? Bug fixes? No, it’s from premium account time, from the battle pass and from premiums. New trees allow for many new premiums to be introduced at once and allow for further sales of those for years after a new nations introduction. Do you really think the monetary flow would be as strong from just two vehicles from a popular country being placed in a tree where they arguably don’t belong?

Even IF these trees would be “worse” than the Swedish one it still doesn’t matter that much. Gaijin has set new standards for how their trees look and don’t want more than three unfoldered vehicles per line per rank. This makes it easier for new nations to be implemented, as their expectations aren’t as high as some others. Not that it matters here, because Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia ARE one of the nations who didn’t even need this change in order to be viable.
To act up about “game experience” and ask me about how long I played yet to not follow the news on what Gaijin is doing for the game is ridiculous.

[Blastertitan]

That’s great! 21 Ukrainian vehicles have already been proposed to be added in the new forum… We will soon collect enough for a whole tree!

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

I think the Ukrainian tree should begin at Rank VI, honestly. Ranks IV and V are essentially identical to Russia’s, so I find them to be unnecessary and redundant, as someone who would like to grind the tree for its unique and original Top Tier vehicles.

[Blastertitan]

I found a video of a Ukrainian MTLB with a ZU-23-2 firing without a crew on armor. In the video, either in Russian or Ukrainian (I understand both very poorly), the guy talks about the gun control panel. This can help the MTLB stand out from other similar models. I’m talking about the BTR ZD in particular. Also, this vehicle can be given a higher battle rating because the entire crew is covered by armor.

МТ-ЛБ с ЗУ 23-2 "Азов"

[dejece_001]

Ukraine is like Spain It has not enougth vehicles yo be a independent tech-tree but It would make great as sub-tech tree.
By the way are you spanish?

[J_ackal]

There is like 100 vehicles like this. A random base and a 23mm strapped on top

[Bonrath]

The difference is that ukraine has way more unique stuff and would actually make sense as an independent tree lmao

[Anchovy_Erika]

Having 2000 hours does not mean you are experienced at all, you may just have patience and endurance.
cash flow has to come from premium accounts and in game content. Copy past 100 of vehicles is just the easy lazy way. I do follow what Gajin says on forums, and I do play the game and I still can see the dozens of anoying bugs, laging players, crashing servers, stupidly old net code. Where to begun, the Tiger fender bug is here for how long? 8 years?, no damage hits, penetration calculator in garage does not align with what you see is hapening in the game. Engine block is not designen as an armor box, tell to Merkava why it gets penetrated via engine, when isrealis have placed it there to work as armour.Soviet tanks fuel tank have diferent calculation of damage in test than in online game. There are tons of things which have to be repaired, we may start to work how to nerf soviet bias and their fantasy stats in this game. Maps are old and do not suit to modern era vehicles some of them are very unbalanced. The mods are also old and boring. There is 100 wazs how to make the game better, not only adding new and new trees so, , average joes , have allways something to grind.

The game can earn and should earn money from premium accounts, premium vehicles are just ruining the game play if they are here to make money for Gajin as prim source.

And I will introduce my self also, so you know who do you speak to. I have almost all vehicles in the game, I am playing this game since Beta.
I am not the best player, but also not the worst. But i am gamer, and I see when potencial of the game is stucked somewhere 6 years ago. The problem is in players who can not imagine what this game can be, and see the only progress in adding more and more vehicles, more and more trees. So players who just want to have fun, competition have to deal with all this grinding 1 life spawn newbies. Just becouse gajin is not ablle to create a mod for old guard, and is forcing them to play with grinders in random match all the time.

https://thunderskill.com/en/stat/skipSVK

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Yep, I am!

And I agree: I would rather see Spain as a Rank V onwards subtree for Italy (for example, as it would significantly reinforce their weak Top Tier) with mostly unique additions, than have it be an independent nation that would be 80% copy-paste.

[SPANISH_AVENGER]

Well, I mean, even in this proposal, almost the entirety of Rank IV and V is just nearly the same as the Russian tree, and it only begins getting actually unique stuff at Rank VI, where it’s still mixed with stuff already present in the Russian tree, being most of the unique stuff on Rank VII onwards; so it’s not like Spain and Ukraine are vastly different in that regard as you pretend.

[Mahiwew]

This is one of the single worst responses I have read in nearly a decade of being part of this community.

First you ask about my playing time and then you discredit it when it’s more than you expect?
This is an actual joke, please.

And apparently you have not looked at a single one of the trees that I have posted.
Explain how a majority of the vehicles are copy/paste from the trees that I posted? Oh wait, you can’t, because you didn’t even look. Don’t act like you did, because you didn’t even mention a single vehicle that was present in this tree and gave no examples. Again, an actual joke.

And oh, what’s that? A minor bug from a single vehicle that has been present for a while? Big deal, it’s not like Gaijin is listening to the community now and grouping vehicles together and lowering the grind required for vehicles and increasing the income for everyone and making premium a genuine bonus instead of a necessity, god forbid.

And oh, god forbid your poor shots do not hurt the enemy and god forbid that one of the newest features in the game doesn’t work quite like you’d like it to.
Nevermind that the modern APFS-DS pens through some thin steel from an engine that isn’t purposefully designed to stop incoming high velocity projectiles. Oh no, the late 70’s basically makeshift armor against early APDS and RPG rounds doesn’t work against modern projectiles that were developed 20+ years later! God forbid the game reflects irl thing relatively well but just not quite to your liking.

Sooooo many minor “bugs” and proper features that ruin the game, it’s incredible how they all ruin the experience for the one single player.

This is laughable.
You take “100 wawz” that may not even necessarily be bugs and use it as an established monetization system that doesn’t necessarily negatively impact players while using your game time AS AN ARGUMENT IN YOUR FAVOR while discrediting another’s achievements. THEN you use MODS as an argument against Gaijins work like they aren’t community made to discredit the game in general.
I mean come on, this much time in the game and you still believe in Soviet bias? Do better.

I’m not even responding beyond this, clearly I’m just talking to someone who looks for excuses and arguments where there are non just to make themselves feel well, ignoring literally everything I’ve said in the process.
So many unrelated points to the topic at hand just to make a null point is genuinely one of the saddest things I’ve seen on the forums since I’ve been active in the community.
Strive to do better.

[Blastertitan]

Yes, there are a lot of them. How many of them can operate without an operator on top? At the very least, it protects against machine guns. And it allows you to fire the gun from a corner. And without fearing for the lives of the crew.

[ConfusedBud]

This is a really good idea! I’d love to see a Ukraine tree in-game. It could also include a Polish and maybe Visegrád subtree, just to help make it denser!

[Kingtiez-live]

Ukraine coupled with Poland or Visegrad makes no sense, only countries apart of Visegrad are Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Hungary. This tree would be even bigger than adding it into the Soviet tech tree, it defeats the argument many people have been making.

[Suppiee]

A seperate Ukrainian Techtree and a seperate Polish techtree simply gives both options the best chance at being played/being viable !

[Kingtiez-live]

I understand what you mean, but do you really want a tech tree that starts at rank 6 though? Because I personally can’t see them moving over rank 4 and 5.

As for Poland I’m looking forward to it, I do feel like that is one of the nations coming to the game as a full fledged independent tech tree.

[Sarmatiko]

@HYPNOSYS2002

adding another 2a6 to the game not in the german TT is an insult

How the hell is this even considered as an insult? By whom?

AFU actually uses 2A6 in actual combat, giving it a purpose and suddenly it’s an “insult”?
Same goes with Gepard and Leo 1. Gepard would have been rotting somewhere in Bundeswehr long term storage, without participating in anything since its creation, and now it’s proven to be useful and protecting the lives of civilians. Is that looks like an “insult” to you too?

Everything that was used by AFU in actual combat deserves the right to be in Ukrainian tree. That includes all RU trophies too, but only Gaijin can determine if they want those in trees or not (I would be completely ok with T-72B3 in regular tree, considering the sheer amount of those captured and reused)