Type 87 and FAPDS-T Rounds
- Does the Type 87 Anti-aircraft Vehicle in real life use FAPDS-T rounds similar to the Gepard? If it does, why not swap the existing one in-game with a prototype version of the vehicle with the same ammunition it currently has to keep it at 8.7 and move the modern version to like 10.0 with full FAPDS-T belts. It would absolutely melt vehicles. It will also provide Japan with a later SPAA. While it wouldn’t have missiles, the FAPDS-T rounds would increase the range of the vehicle quite a bit as well as do some serious damage to both low flyers/drones, incoming missiles, and ground vehicles. FAPDS-T stands for Frangible Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot-Tracer. The FAPDS-T rounds would have slightly less penetration to the regular APDS rounds we have already, however, the FAPDS-T’s tungsten core is designed to fragment post-penetration to cause a lot more damage for the cost of slightly less penetration. Note, the less penetration value isn’t certain as some sources state the penetration is still the same as the DM23. The IRL German Gepard 1A2 for reference was later equipped with full belts of FAPDS-T rounds instead of the standard AP belts we have in-game. The in-game Gepard 1/1A2 lacks this munition.
- If this is added, to summarize, a prototype of the Type 87 such as the AWX 1983 would take the place of the current Type 87 at BR 8.3, keeping the same ammunition. The modern Type 87 would receive DM33 FAPDS-T rounds and be moved to BR 10.0. The new DM33 would give the Type 87 640rds of DM33 FAPDS-T, allowing the vehicle extended engagement range and significantly improved anti-ground and air capabilities. With this new BR, it would be an easier transition to vehicles like the Type 81 mod.(C) Tan-SAM Kai if it were to be added.
Type 87 SPAAG Prototypes. The top is the AWX 1983 which uses the Type 74 chassis and the bottom is the AWX 1978 which uses the Type 61 chassis.
Modern-day production Type 87 SPAAG.
A DM33 FAPDS-T round.
Measurements and cutout of the round. Note, sources differ on penetration values.
A rough illustration comparing HE, APDS, and FAPDS round penetration capabilities.
The Type 81 mod.(C) Tan-SAM Kai.
@tanuki10 do you know anything about this or know of anyone that might know?
The Japanese have never purchased FAPDS-T projectiles. In the Type 87’s Outline, the section detailing the parts of the gun is not available. However, the first table detailing its firepower performance is still intact. There, it lists four ammunitions:
- TP-T; 1,180 m/s
- HEI-T; 1,180 m/s
- SAPHEI-T; 1,180 m/s
- APDS-T; 1,390 m/s
The three projectiles are already in-game: DM11A1 HEI-T, DM13 API-T (SAPHEI-T), and DM23 APDS-T.
Damn that sucks. I was hoping to sneak another higher BR SPAA. Thanks though, I appreciate it.
The newfound importance of gun-based anti-aircraft systems in recent conflicts due to the prevalence of small but lethal drones where a missile would be wasted, might encourage Japan to procure a new, or improve on their existing, gun-based anti-aircraft systems. However, that’s hypothetical, and even if that is the case, the procurement time for it would likely be in years.
So, at the moment, the only potential for a SPAAG to accompany the Type 87 AW is to fallback on some other nation; either going with the wildly controversial South Korea and their K263 and K30 SPAAG systems, or finding another relatively closely-aligned nation, such as has been suggested with Thailand and Indonesia. But, Japan is really hampered by not having formal military relations or alliances aside from their spear-and-shield alliance with the United States, so tying any nation to it would have to rely on flimsy commercial reasoning rather than the closer relations that the Commonwealth has to Britain, that the numerous export vehicles have to Russia, China, and the United States, or other assorted reasoning.
“But, Japan is really hampered by not having formal military relations or alliances aside from their spear-and-shield alliance with the United States, so tying any nation to it would have to rely on flimsy commercial reasoning rather than the closer relations that the Commonwealth has to Britain, that the numerous export vehicles have to Russia, China, and the United States, or other assorted reasoning.”
We have Argentinian vehicles in German tree. While TAM is justified (Marder chassis and other things) - JaPz.K A2 have almost zero right to be in German tree, cause its an Austrian vehicle, built with french techs. So, the only connection here is the fact, that Austria was a part of Germany during WW2. So adding SK vehicles or any other vehicles from countries, which were a part of Japan or Co-Prosperity Sphere - absolutely reasonable and justified.