Turret basket rebalance idea

[Alebang]

Hello everyone i would like to present to you a sort of rebalance to the actual state of the turret baskets and how are they represented.

First of all, why do I think the current state of turret baskets is not balanced?

Well anyone who has played tanks like the Leo/Strv or the Abrams in the current state of the game knows that any penetrating shot usually results in the turret basket being disabled, plus some mobility component like the engine, transmission, or tracks. This wouldn’t be a problem if it rewarded having good aim and knowing the tank’s components and their locations. But right now, it’s the opposite: shooting near the crew compartment completely destroys the chances of the tank that was hit to fight back, even after a poorly placed shot.

In other tanks, a bad shot might only kill one crew member/autoloader or disable mobility, but it still gives the attacked tank a chance to fight back due to the poor shot placement.

In the case of the Leo/Strv and the Abrams, it just neutralizes any chance to fight back but in the case of the t-90M and the t-80BVM a shot placed in a similar way it disables the autoloader and the engine but it still gives the tank that was shot a change to fight back

now do i want the t-80 and t-90 do be disable in the same way that the other tanks were to a bad shot placement

NO

because a shot like this should not disable any tank in the game it is frustrating to be completely crippled by a shot like this

what i want is a change to the way that turret baskets affects the tank ability to fight back in a way that it is fair to the tank that shot first and to the tank was shot

here comes my suggestion to make the turret basket more fair

first of all a dynamic damage model to the turret basket like it is in things like the engine/transmission but why would something like this make the turret basket more balanced well the way i think of doing this is something like this

if the turret basked is at a yellow damage state it would disable the horizontal stabilizer and the horizontal guidance speed will be reduced in a 20%

if the turret basked is at a orange damage state it would disable the horizontal stabilizer and the horizontal guidance speed will be reduced in a 40%

if the turret basked is at a red damage state it would disable the horizontal stabilizer and the horizontal guidance speed will be reduced in a 60%

if the turret basked is at a black damage state it would disable the horizontal stabilizer and the horizontal guidance speed will be reduced in a 80%
(or a similar speed to the one when you run out of battery in the tank)

*edit= the turret basket could have the health increased to avoid getting penalized by 30mm rounds as much as a full sabot round

(the vertical stabilizer and vertical guidance speed could also be affected in order to balance this change or if it is not possible to just disable the horizontal guidance)

This could represent the turret basket colliding with the internals of the tank as if it was deformed due to the damage done by the projectile to the turret basket, making the horizontal aiming drive struggle to rotate

the way i intend this change to be is that the one that shots first still gets a advantage for the fast reaction, but the one that gets shot still gets a chance to defend himself, but not to attack/push the enemy as it dosen’t have the horizontal stabilizer and the total horizontal guidance speed witch it prevents the chance of fighting back, in case of a side shot as the tank would not have the guidance speed or the stabilizer to be able to target the attacking tank it still rewards the tank that managed to get the side shot

but why this would be better than the current state of the turret basket

well for the side of the one that is shot now you have a change to survive and fight for your life while not getting frustrated like in the current state where you can’t do anything

and for the side that shots first you still have the advantage of fighting a tank without a horizontal stabilizer and a significant reduction of the horizontal targeting speed making the flanking still rewarding in this case

and you will still be able to completly stop the horizontal guidance by making the horizontal aiming drive black as it would be a separated component to the turret basket

Would you like to see this in-game?

• Yes
• Yes with less debuffs to the turret baskets
• Yes with more debuffs to the turret baskets
• No

now if a change like this comes to the game maybe it would make the tanks affected too strong, so in order to keep balance it could be added a emergency mechanism reload to the tanks with autoloader, the same way it happens when the engine is off and without battery in a tank with a autoloader where the reload speed is incremented almost in a x2 in orden to defend themselves

Would you like to see this in-game in case the first suggestion gets implemented?

• Yes
• No

[Selascо]

nice ideia

if someone thinks its fair that only certain tanks should be able to return fire after surviving a hit, then they arent interested in a fair game

[Caernarvon02]

would also appreciate not having fake turret baskets on the challenger.

[markimash]

This idea would further nerf these tanks since a yellow/red turret basket currently does not give an penalty.

I think your issue with them is how little hp they have. Maybe change the suggestion to one about giving the module more hp?

[Mihaly_Mister_x]

in the case of russian autoloaders the rounds are mostly always invisible as its even visible in the picture with your suggestion that its just the autoloader thats modeled and not the rounds…in the case of the oplot the rounds are modeled…we need that fixed

[Alebang]

yeah i think that would be a good idea to avoid getting disable by a random 30mm round.

[markimash]

Yeah, the hp on it is way too low.

[Alebang]

They are modeled but in the t-90M photo the autoloader tanked all the spall, making the autoloader black and i think the components that are not damage in the protection analysis turn gray so the damage ones can be seen more clearly.

[Mihaly_Mister_x]

its kinda insane an autoloader can tank a full round that goes thru it without touching the rounds or the charges

[Alebang]

[Alebang]

about the challenger idk the reasoning of adding that module when the turret ring and the flor where the loader stand are not connected in a way that it could affect the turret traverse.

I assume the flor and the turret are sync in a way that they rotate at the same time but they shouldn’t interfere with the other if one of them goes down.

[Exocetta]

Except they do. That pedestal looking thing is firmly connected to the turret floor. There is a slip ring and of course the loader stands on the floor with his ready ammo rack.

[Alebang]

Ohh i get it now i though that the pedestal was near the middle of the turret and the lower part of it rotates the floor.

Now looking at it this ways it seems to be connected to the floor as you say and when the turret moves it drags the floor with it.

[UniqueScorpions-live]

Having played the Challenger, Leo, Abrams, and T80/90

I see no reason to change it. It feels well balanced.

One shot in the general area will cripple both usually, just in different ways.

In the case of the abrams you can still return fire, and thanks to the mobility you can still aim the gun.

Most penetrating shots on a T90 kill it outright, but for the sake of your argument, you get 1 shot and best hope it’s good enough to disable or entirely take out the enemy.

So yes. It’s fine the way it is currently, no need to change it.

Edit: the only one that should get buffs is the Ariete

[Caernarvon02]

The chieftain family of tanks use a “turntable” design where there is a revolving floor for the loader to stand on. It isnt really part of the traverse drive assembly at all.

Heres a Jordanian Chieftain, the layout is next to identical to later Challenger tanks, no basket to account for.

[Alebang]

ok now i am getting confused xd i would love someone to explain me how the floor of the Challys rotate, since is something that i honestly have no idea how it works and i am really interested of knowing.

[Alebang]

Yeah i mean this change is not really indented to balance the western side tanks to the Russian ones, i honestly think that almost every western tank is superior in game compared to the Russian ones if you know what you are doing.

The main problem is that sometimes i feel that crippling a western tank is much more easy that the Russian ones and i can be ok with that, but in the case he takes a bad shot i would like to have the ability to punish that, and i also personally hate full stop mechanics in games, something like a breach shot or a turret ring one is ok because you need to aim specifically at that (most of the times) to take that down, meanwhile the turret basket goes down almost every time something enters the hull of the tank.

[gfdsa_killer]

Autoloaders tank can have manual reload ad emergency. Obviusly slower than standart reloading.