- Yes.
- No.
- In a future Dutch/BeNeLux techtree.
- In the French BeNeLux sub-tree
- Other (Please explain in the comments).
- I said “No” in the first question.
- As laid down (6 x 15cm, 4 x 40mm, 4 x 12,7mm, torpedoes, floatplane)
- 1942 refit (6 x 15cm, 2 x 7,6cm, 4 x 40mm, 6 x 20mm, 4 x 12,7mm, torpedoes)
- 1943 refit (6 x 15cm, 4 x 7,6cm, 4 x 40mm, 6 x 20mm, 4 x 12,7mm, torpedoes)
- 1945 refit (6 x 15cm, 4 x 7,6cm, 6 x 40mm, 6 x 20mm, torpedoes)
- 1948 refit (6 x 15cm, 4 x 7,6cm, 8 x 40mm, 2 x 20mm)
- I said “No” in the first question.
Today I’m going to suggest a ship of the Netherlands Navy Tromp-class Flotilla leader.
This is the HNLMS Tromp (1937)
HNLMS Tromp during full speed sea trials in 1938
Source: Foto's
Quick bit of info about the Tromp-class classification:
Online and on different sources you will see the Tromp-class being reffered to as flotilla leaders and cruisers.
By all means the ships are flotilla leaders, this you will see mentioned on blueprints and source material about the origins of the class.
However the ships were also made in a way that they could fill the roles of light cruisers, hence their light cruiser caliber main guns.
This is where the confusion comes from, and why both flotilla leader and cruiser are being used for the Tromp-class.
But for my suggestion I've decided to class them as flotilla leaders, since let's be honest, they stand no chance against an actual light cruiser.
The Tromp-class only has light cruiser caliber guns, everything else about the ships scream flotilla leader.
History
Spoiler
HNLMS Tromp getting launched, 1937
Source: Foto'sThe origins of the Tromp-class starts in the 1930’s. The Netherlands Navy was looking for two new smaller cruisers that would replace two aging Small Armoured Cruisers. It was required that the two new ships could function as light cruisers, but it was also required that they could function as flotilla leaders.
The ships ended up being flotilla leaders with light cruiser caliber main guns.HNLMS Tromp was launched on the 24th of May 1937, and would be put into service on the 18th of August 1938. She would go on to have a very active carreer.
HNLMS Tromp in 1938
Source: Foto'sDuring August 1939 the threat of war started to become very rear, and so HNLMS Tromp was send to the Dutch East Indies. She arrived there on the 10th of September. She would go on to maintain Dutch neutrality in the area. But when Germany invaded the Netherlands on the 10th of May 1940, the Netherlands was dragged into the war.
The Dutch fleet in the East Indies would go on to play a large role helping the allies fight against the Japanese. And in Febuari 1942 HNLMS Tromp would be part of the Allied Striking Force there.
HNLMS Tromp in the port of Sydney, 1943-1944
Source: Foto'sHNLMS Tromp would take part in multible operations after this, something which I’m not going to detail in this suggestion. My suggestions are always about giving you the needed information about the Aircraft, Ground Vehicle or Naval Vessel I’m suggesting. So if you want to know more about what HNLMS Tromp did during the early stages of the war I recommend you look it up online or in books.
Something that is worth pointing out is that the ship would go through many refits during the war, all of which made the ship more and more powerfull. Be sure to check out the details about the refits in the “Design” section of this suggestion.
HNLMS Tromp would end up surviving the war, and after the Japanese had been defeated she would remain in the East Indies for some time to aid where ever possible and protect Dutch ships from Indonesian Nationalists. She would return to the Netherlands on the 3rd of May 1946. She had been away from the Netherlands Homeland for 7 years by now, and the war had transformed her into a proper war machine.
HNLMS Tromp just after the second world war, 1946
Source: Foto's
Fate
Spoiler
HNLMS Tromp now with the designation C804, 1953
Source: Foto'sWhen HNLMS Tromp arrived in the Netherlands in 1946, she was taken into dock for maintenance and modernization. She would come back to service on the 1st of July 1948. Some time after this she was given a registration number, that being C804.
By 1955 the ship was taken out of service. And during the following years her condition would get worse and worse. She would be taken out of active service, but was kept as a logging vessel all the way into the 1960’s.
On the 20th of December 1968 HNLMS Tromp was taken out of service for good, and on the 6th of June 1969 she was send of to be scrapped.
A beautifull top down view of HNLMS Tromp somewhere around 1953
Source: Foto's
Design
Spoiler
A photo of the rear 15cm No. 11 turret onboard HNLMS Tromp, also note the two 40mm No. 4 turrets just behind it
Source: Foto'sThe Tromp-class flotilla leaders was a class of two ships made in the Netherlands at the "Nederlandse Scheepsbouw Maatschappij te Amsterdam".
HNLMS Tromp was 131,95 metres long, had a beam of 12,43 metres and a draft of 4,32 metres, and displaced 3,460 tons at standard displacement, and 4,225 tons at full. She originally had a crew of 295 men, but this went up to 350 in 1942, and finally 393 in 1945. The shipwas able to reach 32,5 knots.
The main weaponry of the ship was six 15cm No. 11 guns. These were Bofors 15cm/50 guns, which were made in the Netherlands by “Wilton-Fijenoord-Bofors”. The guns were mounted in three twin turrets, with a superfiring pair at the front, and a single turret at the rear.
The guns had a firerate of around 5 to 6 rounds per minute.
Ammunition for the 15cm guns consisted of two types of AP and an HE.
A photo of two 15cm No. 11 turrets for HNLMS Tromp
Source: Foto'sThe secondairy guns consisted of four 40mm No. 4 autocannons. Like many nations around the 1930’s, the Netherlands had showed great interest in the 40mm Bofors L/60. And the Dutch company Hazemeijer was developing a twin mount for the Dutch Navy. These twin mounts were very advanced triaxial mounting together with a tachymetric control system. The first generation of these turrets, named No. 3’s, were put on the light cruisers HNLMS De Ruyter and HNLMS Java. However Hazemeijer developed an improved turret that had built-in tachymetric director and automatic stabilisation. This improved turret was the No. 4 and would be put on most Dutch ships before the second world war.
HNLMS Tromp would recieve two of these 40mm No. 4 autocannon turrets, and both were placed side by side just behind the rear 15cm turret.
One interesting detail was that the original Tromp-class design was planned with four No. 4 turrets, but for some reason Tromp only got two.
A photo taken of the rear deck, showing one of the two 40mm No. 4 turrets
Source: Foto'sFurthermore HNLMS Tromp was fitted with two twin 12,7mm Colt-Browing machine gun turrets placed on top of the bridge. This twin turret was a very common sight on Dutch ships of the 1930’s.
The ship was also fitted with two tripple 533mm torpedo tube launchers. These were mounted on the middle of the ship, with one launcher on each side of the ship. The torpedoes used were Whitehead Type V 53 torpedoes. These had a 350 kg TNT warhead, and a range of 4.000 meters at 45 knots, or a range of 12.000 meters at 28 knots.
Finally she was also fitted with an Aircraft Crane. The Crane was mounted in the middle of the ship. There was room for one Fokker C.11w floatplane. The ship did not have any kind of catapult system however, the aircraft would have to be lowered into the water with the crane and then take of on it’s own.
In 1942 HNLMS Tromp came in for repair and modernization. The floatplane crane seems to have been removed at this time. And two new 7,6cm Semi-Automatisch No. 3 guns were added to the ship. These were placed behind the smoke funnel where the floatplane used to be stored. These guns are a little interesting, the guns seem to be mounted in an American Mark 22, 24 or 26 mount. But the gun used on the mount looks like a Mark 2 - 8 gun to me, a gun not typically used on the Mark 22 mount. So to me it looks like a bit of an improvisation with whatever guns they had at the time.
A photo taken of one of the four 7,6cm No. 3 guns
Source: Foto'sThe 40mm No. 4 autocannons were also changed slightly. Originally the two turrets were put side by side, but this comes with a problem, only one turret can shoot to either side. So during this refit the turret positions were changed so that they are now behind eachother, with the rear one superfiring over the other. Another detail is that the turrets were fitted with gunshields during this refit.
A 40mm No. 4 turret onboard HNLMS Tromp, now fitted with gunshields
Source: Foto'sLastly an extra six 20mm Oerlikon autocannons were added. Two of these were on Mark I mountings and were put on top of two of the 15cm turrets. One on the rear turret and one on the superfiring front turret. The remaining four autocannons were on Mark VIIA mounts and seem to have been placed on top of the bridge right where the two twin 12,7mm turrets used to be.
However, the 12,7mm turrets were not removed according to one source. The source mentions that at a later refit the 12,7mm machine guns were changed, so that must mean that they were still onboard the ship, and I think I have a good idea where they have been relocated to. On the photo just below this text we see a nice side view of the ship after this refit.
We see all the before mentioned changes like the 40mm turret changes, the 20mm Oerlikon gunshields are visible on top of the bridge. But if you look very closely on the middle of the ship you will see what looks like a small rangefinder, and just below it I think I spot four machine gun barrels. The Dutch twin 12,7mm turrets have the two machine guns stacked on top of eachother, and to me the photo seems to match with that.The last change made during this refit was the addition of two depth charge rails at the rear, and four depth charge throwers.
HNLMS Tromp around 1943/1944. Note the 20mm autocannons on top of the front and rear 15cm turrets
Source: Foto'sIn 1943 HNLMS Tromp recieved another tiny refit where another two 7,6cm No. 3 guns were added, giving her a total of four of them now. And one source mentions that the 12,7mm machine guns were changed to Browning machine guns. What this exactly means I’m not sure, because the original machine guns used were water-cooled Colt-Browning machine guns. So my best guess is that these were now replaced with the air-cooled AN-M2 Browning machine gun. I do not know if the original turrets were still used, it could be possible that they were replaced with another mount.
In 1945 the ship went in for another refit. During this refit the two Dutch 40mm No. 4 turrets were replaced with British Mark IV onces. These were British licence produced versions of the Dutch No. 4’s, however the Mark IV was fitted with a Type 282 radar so they are easy to spot. Also these mounts did not have the gunshields that were added to the original turrets in 1942.
To further increase the 40 mm firepower, another two 40 mm autocannons were added just behind the Mark IV turrets. These two 40 mm autocannons were placed in two single No. 9 mounts. These are 20mm Mark IV mounts fitted with a single 40mm instead of the 20’s.Furthermore there were some changes to the 20mm autocannons. The two on top of the 15cm turrets were removed, the four on top of the bridge were replaced with two twin 20mm Mark V mounts, and next to the smoke funnel two searchlights were replaced with two 20mm Oerlikon autocannons.
The 533mm torpedo tubes were changed to British onces so that they could fire Mark 9 torpedoes. These had a 330 kg TNT warhead, and a range of 9.600 meters at 36 knots, or a range of 12.300 meters at 30 knots.
Also the 12,7mm machine guns seem to have been removed at this time.
HNLMS Tromp in 1946, note that the 40mm turret is now a British Mark IV one and no longer a Dutch No. 4
Source: Foto'sLastly the ship went through a final refit in 1948. Here the torpedo tubes were removed, and the twin 20mm Mark IV turrets above the bridge had their guns replaced with a single 40mm Bofors. Giving the ship a total of eight 40mm autocannons now.
Protection of the ship was exactly what you would expect of a flotilla leader, enough to deal with Destroyer caliber HE, but nothing bigger then that. The belt armour of the ship was 15 mm thick The armoured deck, and also the roof of the armoured citadel was 25 mm thick.
The sides of the citadel are 30mm thick. The conning tower 10mm, the ammunition elevators 15mm, and the fronts of the 15cm turrets are 25mm thick while the sides, roof and rear are 15mm thick.
A blueprint of the armour layout of the ship
Source: | Nationaal Archief
Ingame
Spoiler
HNLMS Tromp would be a fun flotilla leader to have ingame, she packs a punch with her light cruiser caliber guns, her torpedoes are good overall, and her later secondairy weaponry is pretty darn good. Also her twin 40mm Bofors turrets (If modeled accurately ingame) are triaxial stabalized, and so even when the ship is in rough seas or making turns the 40mm turrets can stay on target.
My first choice would be to have this ship be added into a independent BeNeLux techtree. But ofcourse the BeNeLux has been added to France, so this is now the only option where Dutch vehicles will go to. But it must be said that the Netherlands and France have nothing in common, and do not make sense to combine together ingame.
In the French tree HNLMS Tromp would fit right in with existing French cruisers. The French techtree already has some lightly armoured cruisers, so HNLMS Tromp would play the same as them.
Specifications
Spoiler
A side view cutaway of the ship
Source: | Nationaal ArchiefStandard Displacement: 3,460 tons
Full Displacement: 4,225 tons
Length: 131,95 m
Beam: 12,43 m
Draft: 4,32 m
Installed powerplant: 2 x Werkspoor-Parsons steamturbines, 4 x Yarrow boilers (56.000 hp)
Propulsion: 2 x shafts, 3,9 meter three bladed propellors
Maximum speed: 32,5 knots
Crew: 295 men (350 in 1942, 393 in 1945)Armor:
Belt: 15 mm
Armoured deck / Roof of the Citadel: 25 mm
Citedel sides: 30 mm
Conning tower: 10 mm
Turrets: 25 mm front, 15 mm sides, roof and rear
Ammunition elevators: 15 mmArmament: (As laid down)
3 x 2 15cm No. 11 guns
2 x 2 40mm No. 4 autocannons
2 x 2 12,7mm Colt-Browning machine guns
2 x 3 533 mm torpedo tubes firing Type V 53 torpedoes1 x Aircraft crane, with a Fokker C.11w floatplane carried. (Max speed 280 km/h, 2 x 7.9 mm FN-Browning machine guns, one firing forwards, and one for the gunner)
1942 refit:
3 x 2 15cm No. 11 guns
2 x 1 7,6cm Semi-Automatisch No. 3 guns
2 x 2 40mm No. 4 autocannons ← Their setup changed, and gunshields added
6 x 1 20mm Oerlikon autocannons (Two in Mark I mountings, and four in Mark VIIA)
2 x 2 12,7mm Colt-Browning machine guns
2 x 3 533 mm torpedo tubes firing Type V 53 torpedoes
4 x Depth Charge throwers
2 x Depth Charge rails at the rear1943 refit:
3 x 2 15cm No. 11 guns
4 x 1 7,6cm Semi-Automatisch No. 3 guns ← Two more compared to 1942
2 x 2 40mm No. 4 autocannons
6 x 1 20mm Oerlikon autocannons (Two in Mark I mountings, and four in Mark VIIA)
2 x 2 12,7mm Browning machine guns ← Now Browning instead of Colt-Browning
2 x 3 533 mm torpedo tubes firing Type V 53 torpedoes
4 x Depth Charge throwers
2 x Depth Charge rails at the rear1945 refit:
3 x 2 15cm No. 11 guns
4 x 1 7,6cm Semi-Automatisch No. 3 guns
2 x 2 40mm Mark IV autocannons ← Dutch No. 4’s replaced for British Mark IV’s
2 x 1 40mm No. 9 autocannons (Bofors in British Boffin mount)
2 x 2 20mm No. 5 autocannons (Oerlikons in Mark V twin mount)
2 x 1 20mm Oerlikon autocannons in Mark VIIA mountings
2 x 3 533 mm torpedo tubes firing Mark 9 torpedoes
4 x Depth Charge throwers
2 x Depth Charge rails at the rear1948 refit:
3 x 2 15cm No. 11 guns
4 x 1 7,6cm Semi-Automatisch No. 3 guns
2 x 2 40mm Mark IV autocannons
4 x 1 40mm No. 9 autocannons (Bofors in British Boffin mount)
2 x 1 20mm Oerlikon autocannons in Mark VIIA mountings
4 x Depth Charge throwers
2 x Depth Charge rails at the rear
A top-down view of the main deck
Source: | Nationaal Archief
HNLMS Tromp in the port of Sydney, 1943. Note the 20mm autocannon on top of the rear 15cm turret
Source: Foto's
And there you have it! I hope you enjoyed reading about this amazing machine.
See you on the battlefield!
Sources
Spoiler
Dutch sources:
- “Nederlandse marineschepen 1939-1945” book, by Peter Kimenai
- Dutch light cruisers Tromp and Jacob van Heemskerck
Secondairy sources:
Fokker C.11w floatplane:
Photos:
Blueprints: