The Tornado IDS ASSTA1 is too high in the BR!
It has the same armament as the other Tornados (apart from GBU’s, which no one uses in air battles), its the same aircraft overall and yet has a higher BR.
I’m just talking about ARB, keep that in mind :D
7 Likes
J7D be like:
5 Likes
To be honest… All the Tornados (base versions) are way to high in BR… The only reason they are there is because of 2 Aim 9L which can simply be defeated with one food flare… And the game ide offers nothing to Tornado players. As fighter jets with bombs are even faster at the bases than your slow ass bus
1 Like
Currently spading this brick, so why is it .3 higher BR than the 11.3 tornados? Is there some secret a2a trick with laser guided bombs I don’t know about? It seems otherwise the same exact plane.
Only thing I can even think close to this situation is su25bm vs su25t, but a least the su25t gets a dazzler ,TPOD for ghetto fox1 launches with kh25ml, and vikhr pods can be argued make it much better at ground pounding ai for rewards/tickets, I just don’t see anything that the 11.7 tornados have over the 11.3 ones for ARB to warrant them being .3 higher.
2 Likes
Back in the day when they implemented separate BR in ARB/GRB.
Our glorious Stona told us that because Tonka can farm a fair amount of SL due to its heavy payload, and is doing quite well in ARB according to reward netting.
So buffing Tonka down will be a double standard for fighters who can’t bomb the base.
And we all know that MiG-23ML isn’t on their list. :/
What should we call it?
Russian Bias?
Premium Bias?
Hatred to the British caused collateral damage to NATO partners?
In fact, I am just wondering when GR.1 will be nerfed to 12.0BR along with Coalition partners with GBU… :/
I mean the laser bombs you give up double the payload for, and AI targets and bases don’t exactly move so I don’t see how that would be anything but a nerf in regards to farming/rewards.
If you are talking about them in general, they don’t win base races, and you aren’t going to ground pound with the large bomb loadout unless you team wins the game for you but also doesn’t end the match long enough for you to take out ground targets unmolested with them (btw if you take more than 6 1k pound bombs your base rewards get nerfed HARD so if you are taking full bombs you are just killing ai targets).
For the plane itself, I get aim 9L is better than r60m by a good bit, but we have planes with 6 of them at 11.0 vs just 2 while also having a FM on a different plane of existence. 9L isn’t that much more flare resistant than r60m, i’d think the only worry is flareless jets, and if thats a problem the 11.0 jets with 6 all aspects and supersonic+good FM are a much worse problem.
1 Like
That is why I hate Gaijin when talking about tonka
At this rate, as a joke, Tornado GR.1 and the other 11.7 tonka will be 12.3+
While GR.4 with 9M goes straight up high to 14.0 due to HMS
/s
And of course, at same patch, both F-4S and MiG-23ML will somehow goes down to 11.7/11.3.
1 Like
Ya i don’t get the reward thing either, they baked into kneecapped rewards to the bomb loadouts, the more you bring the less score (rp/sl) you get per base, and its basically enough that bringing enough bombs for 2 bases nets you about half the rewards per base that bringing enough for just 1 does. It’s also a pipedream to get more than 1 base, let a lone just getting one in these things most times.
So in terms of base bombing mudmovers don’t even have an advantage over napalm fighters in terms of rewards. The only thing they can do better is ground pound, and really planes don’t have too much issue taking out things like howitzers/spaa/light pill boxes with just guns as long as you have something like a vulcan.
And if going for medium tanks and other AI targets was so profitable I’d think i’d see them contested more often, there is almost never people fighting over these like bases.
Anyone have tips for how to play this thing besides hiding in sim? I’ve tried everything I can think of and it all works very poorly.
Base rushing you might get a base 1 out of 3 games at best. This thing turns like a boat without bombs, with them its terrible so if you see a mig23/f4s any SARH with lookdown capability the second they show up you have to start pre notching, MP isn’t going to save you from r24 or at least it hardly ever does, so that ruins your base chances even more.
A trick I used on the yak28 was climbing to space and going for the far right base with a bomb toss, but at this BR you are going to eat a fox1 every time and again the problems with defending yourself in those situations.
Ground pounding AI is the best i’ve come up with, but im not sure about rewards yet seems to be very map dependent.
Playing it as a fighter… I don’t think you beat literally any plane you come across. Only kills i’ve gotten is killing afk players with aim9L and suicidal headons. If there is anything else I can do in this department I’d like to know.
and ya I tested the bomb loadouts. 12x 1k lb bombs and 2 bases = 680 score. 6x 1k lb bombs and 1 base = 680 score, really cool stuff. I’ll see if I can manage more score with 12 bombs killing AI and if its even more feasible than base bombing. From what I’ve done so far its suicide to take 12 bomb loadout and go straight for targets, I think you need to go off in africa for a couple minutes and let things cool down before you try and attack AI but if your team is losing its going to end poorly for you. Another problem is you can’t keep your speed up to have some sense of survivability attacking AI, can’t drop bombs unless you are going below mach 1.
At this point im just convinced you might as well afk the first few minutes of the match, if you team is winning go attack AI or bomb a base, otherwise just go fly into the first guy you see in a suicidal headon and go next.
Edit: after some AI pounding, on bad maps you’ll get less for killing 12 targets with bombs than you’ll get for killing 1 base with 6 bombs. On good maps (spain in particular) you can manage a bit more score from those 12 bombs, but the effort required is substantially higher and impossible unless your team is winning.
Also thanks to statshark we actually have all the info on planes we could want pretty much
Spoiler
As for RP/SL per game its in the middle of the pack for its rank if we exclude premiums, so its has 3x worse KD on top of mediocre rewards so im not sure what gaijin is talking about the rewards carrying it. Only mudmovers doing worse are the f111 and su24, even all the a-10’s stats are mogging this thing. I’m sorry for the rant but spading this is giving me cancer.
Also 1 more thing, it takes 5 bombs to kill a base not 6, not sure if that was always the case. Doing so nets you a bit more rewards as less bombs you bring the more rewards you get per base. Get about ~10% more score only bringing 5 bombs instead of 6.
Wait 1 more thing
Yeah, no one knows, Gaijin believe that it has higher effeciency therefore should be a higher BR.
My guess. They were entirely basing that off the WTD61 vs ASSTA1/GR1/IDS (1995) and so of course the WTD61 had way lower effeciency because premium players are really really bad. But now with the Italian IDS as well at 11.3. I would love to see if that has changed.
Unfortunately, despite it being heavily requested every single BR change. They wont ever acknowledge they should be a different BR
You can read the mental gymnastics they tried to pull here. Gets even worse when you remember the GR1 at 11.7 also has weaker engines than everyone else too
4 Likes
How I play the GR4, is I run 5x Mk13s (you’ll need to run 6x Mk83s) + CM pods + Aim-9s. (I also like high drag in ARB)
I flank left, aiming for one of the 2 bases on the left, now in the GR4, you get a lot less base bombers, but at 11.7, you probably wont beat the Mig-23MLs and F-4Ss to the bases, but keep going that way. You can always swing behind the enemy team and go for one of the bases on the right.
After that, I usually charge the enemy team. Now with 9Ms on the GR4 and unlimited CMs, I can usually walk away with at least 1 kill, but usually more. But in the ASSTA1, you may be better off being a little more defensive. But a sneaky 9L at the right target could still net you a kill. Also with proper use of combat flaps. you can get the odd gunkill too. Managed to beat an F-20 the other day
I find either 45 mins internal or 30 mins + fuel tanks (that wya I can ditch the weight) works quite well
They might have re-adjusted the base score, but I think this is just base bleed. Id normally run 6x Mk83s for the hard base kill, but yeah, running 5 could work too.
1 Like
lmao, they know it
this is so unbelievably stupid, should the i153p go up? it has a very high sl/rp modifier
absolutely insane logic, remember this every time someone tells you that gaijin knows anything about vehicle balance
2 Likes
Gaijin: Tonka can’t be buffed, because their average reward are high enough.
(While keeping their famous moneymaker MiG-23ML, which is infinitely better in the same BR)
If Gaijin really thought about base bombing and average rewards,
First, It really needs to make both Tonka at the same BR because guided munitions impacts ZERO about it.
Second, I just wonder why we can’t get buffed when those ‘average reward’ got decreased by other factors.
1 Like
The rewards of all vehicles can be seen on stat shark. Tornados despite having the worst kd of any 11.7 also sit just below average on rewards. So its miserable to play and not by any stretch overperforming in the rewards department to make up for that. Mig 23 ml after dividing rewards by 2 since its premium still beats it by nearly 50%.
You would expect for these to be staying at a BR they clearly don’t belong be offset by higher than normal rewards but that just isn’t the case.
Only real logical explanation is these sit here because at the time they were the highest br and maybe arguably best CAS available at the time and people were GEing mods to bypass the godawful expierence in ARB. And now gaijin hasn’t at least done the players a favor and dropped them now that they are mostly irrelevant. Same situation with the su35sm3 for russia that sits at 11.7 instead of 11.3 like its counterparts which are arguably better in arb as they carry 2 extra r60. Although I found these to be much more enjoyable to play over the tonka because at least the 2 missiles you got are actually a threat on that terrible airframe, unlike the 9L which is only going to score kills against unaware players.
Well, maybe Gaijin thinks mudmover like Tonka shouldn’t overperform MiG-23ML in ARB :/
Seems ‘average reward netting’ was just brought up for reasoning reasons.
I obviously think that even the deaf or blind will notice that every Tonka are underperforming drastically instead of overperforming.
Just you and I, and every other Tonka lover does.
Only Gaijin don’t know
In fact, they also know, but are just ignoring it because they don’t want to accept that they were wrong.
1 Like
Give it to me straight doc, does germany get a tonka with more than 2 missiles in the future? I dont even care if its bad I think its cool. Kinda jelous of the british one with fox 1 (I know its bad).
Best you can get is maybe something like the Tornado IDS SLE as something vaguely akin to the Tornado Gr4/MLU, but no IDS had more than 2x A2A missiles.
I am deeply offended you think its bad :P
AFAIK, Germany only bought and used the IDS version of Tonka, and it only carries two Anti-Air missiles in total, so I think you can only expect Tonka with 2 AIM-9Li or IRIS-T at maximum.
We built Tonka with Fox 1 (Tornado ADV) because we needed to; maybe Germany and Italy were originally not interested in our interceptors.
(Italy loaned them later because their F-104S were also being outdated, just as your F-4F was, while Eurofighter is also delaying. Then shifted to loaning F-16A ADF instead later.)
And [fox 1 version] of her was one of our best rank 8 until we got Eurofighter later, while other rank 8 are filled with full of overrated rubbish with cool shapes :P
Dang germany suffers