So nothing new or even nearly peer to counter the main threat of any top tier CAS plane, thank you for the reply
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Since your post brought up the Yak-141, your entire post is null and void and can be dismissed.
With that said, Tornado GR4 is not an incomplete prototype. It is not Kikka or Ho-229, it’s a fully production aircraft.
AIM-7 with datalink wouldn’t be functional as buddy-locking isn’t a feature in War Thunder.
Your post also implies Su-34 is DOA by claiming Tornado GR4 is DOA.
Soviets don’t have two 11.7 premiums.
Please tell me the BR is not final. I have a hard time justifying it above 11.7, let alone 12.0. if it is 12.3 it’s DOA (in air)
Especially in sim, where this means it’s permanently fighting 12.7s
Paveway IV is new
EGBU is new
Terma is new
HMS is new
AIM-9M is new for the GR.4
So quite a lot is indeed new :)
I’m not sure why you believed an aircraft with AIM-9M, MAW, more countermeasure options, dual mode Paveways, HMS and other features would be anything less than 12.0 to begin with.
BRs can always change, but this is an entirely logical starting point. It’s a significant upgrade over GR.1.
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Please refrain from rewriting other people’s words as you want them to be.
If he said that the Tornado Gr.4 is a stillborn aircraft within the game, it does not mean that he says the same about other aircraft that will be added to the game
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Do you think others are idiots who can’t check your stats on the Mirage? They are, to put it mildly, unimpressive.
The base airframe is 11.3 as per the Tornado MFG, WTD61 and A200. It has identical engines, turn performance etc etc. (and a fairly weak one at that)
A2G is totally irrelevant in all air modes as the default loadout for ARB/ASB will usually just be Mk13/Mk83s. The Paveways and Brimstones hold almost no value in air modes. (Maybe if the brimstones had FnF, but as hellfires, no tiny value at most)
Aim-9M yes increases the BR, but im of the opinion that the GR1, A200A and ASSTA1 should recieve Aim-9Li to justify their BR being 11.7 and not the correct BR of 11.3. The HMD will be of minimal value usually as this is a ground attacker and not an agile dogfighter. Also Aim-9Ms are not brilliant fired off-boresight either. If this was using Magic II or R-73, then the HMD value may increase.
Additional CMs are a minimal aid as they are mostly chaff based and again, essentially the same as the 11.3 Tornados. Without BOL, this minimal increase alone wont save you. The MAWS is handy to have but again, not a majoir increase in survivaibility.
Aim-9M takes the 11.3 Tornado to 11.7. When you add the MAWS and HMD (and hopefully BOL) this pushes it to 12.0. Max. In Sim there is NO 12.3 bracket, meaning ALL 12.3s have a min BR of 12.7. At its core, an 11.3 Tornado IDS, fighting 12.7+s all day long is not a fair fight even slightly.
12.0 would be the reasonable BR for it.
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it actually does have BOL, I saw them on stream.
This is incorrect. Terma allows mixed and has MAWs.
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I saw BOZ and a TERMA. Didnt see BOL
So if the Tornado WTD61 had 240 flares instead 56 it would be 12.0?
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This is a gross understatement of what GR.4 has compared to WTD-61.
Tornado WTD61
- 2x Aim-9L
- 12x Mk83
- 56 flares
- 600 large calibre chaff
Tornado GR4
- 2x Aim-9M (with HMD which is minimal aid)
- 12x Mk13
- 268 flares (with MAWS which barely works on most aircraft and Im assuming MAWS is rear aspect only)
- 300 large claibre chaff (though I think I saw it was standard calibre chaff so 600 standard calibre chaff if that is the case)
The only thing that is affecting the BR significantly is the TERMA and HMD. (I already consider 11.7 the correct BR for the Tornado to get 2x Aim-9Li to justify that one BR increase) Its insane to think that an 11.3 is going to be at 12.7 in Sim because it has AAMs that it will rarely if ever employ and CMs that if its using will mean its dead anyway to the Mig-29 unloading cannon rounds into it (flares and chaff dont defend against cannon rounds btw)
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i think 12. 0 for gr4 is fine
to be fair the WTD61 being 11.3 in ARB while the IDS’s are 11.7 is still baffling. Care to share light on that particular game balance decision?
Like no disrespect I genuinely want to understand why gaijin feels guided bombs warrant a BR difference in ARB
HMD is a massive benefit for IR missiles too. Particularly on an airframe like Tornado.
As I mentioned above, as with any aircraft, it’s BR can change if it performs poorly. However there are more things than just some of the oversimplified comparisons you gave made above that result in its current BR.
We addressed this at the start of summer regarding Tornado BRs: Responding To Your Feedback On Separate Battle Ratings
Well… Heres the warning for it. Like the GR1, ASSTA1 and A200A which are over-BRed at 11.7 as it is, the Tornado Gr4 at 12.3 would struggle greatly even at 12.0. 12.3 it will be one of the worst performing aircraft at that BR range and will either need massive buffs like BOL, or a BR drop rapidly.
But you don’t understand, Britain players have a higher success rate with Tornado so obviously it should be 12.7 but they’re being nice and introducing it at 12.3.
This tornado’s an utter joke with what they’ve done to Brimstones. Thing might as well be 11.7.