As stated by the title - I think the TOR M1 being added to the Chinese tree was entirely done because it was easier for the developers to implement a 100% Russian vehicle rather than putting in a bit extra effort to add ONE OF THE MANY anti-air systems developed by China.
The TOR M1 has indeed been given to China in low numbers, which was then improved by the Chinese ground forces and designated as HQ-17. (The developers didn’t even bother adding the slightly different, upgraded Chinese TOR, the HQ-17 - they instead added the original Russian TOR.)
But I think it is sad and hurtful that the Chinese tree is being filled with Russian hand-me-downs instead of their own vehicles, DESPITE China having a much larger budget than Russia and one of the fastest developing ground forces in the world.
I think the TOR M1 should be taken out of the tree and put into the Russian tree, perhaps foldered with the Pantsir or the 2S6. People who’ve put any research or have bought the TOR should get to keep it, much like what happened to the Maus.
And, as China’s top tier SPAA - the Russian TOR can be replaced by many different vehicles, such as:
- The HQ-17A, which is an actually Chinese implementation of the TOR launcher, using a Chinese domestic wheeled hull and Chinese domestic improved radar. But with a similar missile system:
Spoiler
HQ-17A SUGGESTION POST - https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/567010-hq-17a/ (appears to have been deleted)
This would be very similar to the TOR, but at least actually Chinese. As my biggest gripe with the TOR is that it simply does not belong in the Chinese tree - especially BECAUSE the Chinese tree has been done very dirty by Gaijin, with many low-effort copy-paste barely-different vehicles being added.
There are relatively few truly unique Chinese vehicles, and the tree is seen as a joke by most - a “copy-paste Russia”, which I believe is a huge misrepresentation of the incredible diversity of the Chinese modern ground forces that are packed to the brim with unique and interesting vehicles.
- The next possible top tier SPAA addition would be the FK-2000, as a vehicle very similar to the Pantsir, but still unique and set apart by its powerful 30mm naval cannons:
Spoiler
FK-2000 SUGGESTION POST - https://forum.warthunder.com/t/fk-2000-the-chinese-ground-based-kashtan/11180
It would have a similar anti-air capability to the Pantsir (very similar missiles), but with the Chinese license-built AK-630 naval guns with devastating 30mm APFSDS rounds available - which would allow it to destroy tanks in a pinch. Overall a very powerful but not unbalanced vehicle, as it is still just a very large truck that’s easy to destroy.
- The third Chinese SPAA that could fulfill its role at top tier would be the Type 625E, an anti-air system based on the Type 08 chassis (which is in the game in the form of the ZLT-11).
Spoiler
It has the same AK-630 naval cannon as the FK-2000, but with different missiles and a more agile chassis which would allow it to destroy tanks with a bit more poise. The missiles it fires are short-range FB-10s with a maximum range of 10km, so they would still be outranged by the best CAS at top tier - it would make up for this by being a mixed-role vehicle that can also destroy enemy tanks.
- The fourth Chinese SPAA that I believe could perform at top tier is the SWS-2, another Type 08-based chassis with a familiar 35mm gun found on the Gepard/PGZ09 (with some Chinese improvements, mainly a doubled RPM which would give it the same firepower as the double cannons found on existing SPAA) and TY-90 missiles which ALSO already exist in-game on the Chinese Z-9W, Z-9WA, Z-19, Z-19E and Z-10 helicopters.
Spoiler
SWS-2 SUGGESTION POST - https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/552627-norinco-sws-2-missilegun-aa-vehicle/
The SWS-2 is an export vehicle much like the VT-4A1 and many of its parts are already present in-game. It just brings them all together in what I believe would be a very fun package. The TY-90 missiles in-game are known to be fairly potent, but their range isn’t great and they can be flared, and the 35mm isn’t particularly capable at very high BRs - so this wouldn’t be a very strong anti-air.
But it does have AHEAD rounds available (which, if they were to be fixed in-game) that could give it a bit of an edge, and with APDS available for its 35mm - it’s also a very capable mixed-role IFV/SPAA mix. Not overpowered, but certainly fun to play and Chinese - which is the focus.
- The fifth, and last in this list, SPAA that could replace the TOR is the new Yi-Tian GA58 (replacing the old WZ-551 based Yi-Tian, an anti air that should also be added, but isn’t top tier-worthy so it’s not in this list)
Spoiler
The GA58 is another Type 08 chassis SPAA, this time barely modified from the existing hull in-game (on the ZLT-11). This is a purely missile SPAA, firing what would appear to be similar missiles to the FK-2000 and the Pantsir. (The previous Yi-Tian used TY-90s). This would be a more conventional option similar to the Swedish ItO 90M with purely anti-air capability.
And that’s all of the SPAA that I personally think would be incredible domestic Chinese replacements for the Russian TOR M1 in the Chinese tree. Honorable mentions would go to the CS/SA5, CS/AA5, JRVG-1 and FK-1000, but I don’t think those SPAA are quite fit for top tier (but certainly would fit somewhere around 10.0-11.0).
I would love to hear your thoughts below.
- Yes
- No, keep it in both trees.
- Other (leave a comment below)
- HQ-17A
- FK-2000
- Type 625E
- SWS-2
- Yi-Tian II (GA58)
- Other (leave a comment below)
- None, the Russian TOR should stay as China’s top tier SPAA.
I thank you for taking the time to read this post.
