The era on the vt4 thailand uses is worse than Nizh and duplet though not by much, as you said 3bm42 is as mich as the oplot should get, it will never get 3bm46 as its impossiblr.
FY2 is weaker than Nizh, but the VT4 should still have greater maximum protection if the 900/1,100 CE hull/turret values for the T-84 I found were accurate.
Not sure if this has been posted here before, however this diagram was made by a well respected tank nerd (Object 477 from SH) and is based on data from the original trials in Thailand:
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It’s not Japan tree, it’s imperial Japan, bc flag
It’s not German tree, it’s ww2 Deutschland, look at the flag
It’s not China tree or is it, it’s the ccp part of China with a Taiwanese subtree which is also China
How convenient
Let’s merge the middle part of German tech tree with ussr then lol
Edit: and add half of Europe too
It’s not imperial Japan either, they are using the War Flag. That makes it one of the only two trees in-game that don’t use a national flag at all (next to Germany).
Personally I don’t think the flags are anything to go by, since in many cases a single nation went through multiple flags and even entire governments (Germany is the extreme here with five different "Germany"s in the timeframe). Ideally for each nation should get their modern national flag.
Then subtrees make even that difficult, but I have my own opinions on that.
Germany was never part of the USSR, neither was “half of Europe”. USSR countries would be Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Estonia, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Latvia, Lithuania, Moldova, Russia, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, and Uzbekistan.
Probably a bit much considering even if Russia alone remains the only nation in the tree post-USSR it’s still pretty much the techtree with the most stuff to add. But if they do have to pick from them for whatever reason I think it’d be best to go for nations well aligned with modern day Russia as well such as Belarus. Mainly because a large point of adding a nation is to appeal to players from that nation that naturally live in the modern day, not 40 years ago.
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Tried to make a point that Germany back then was still Germany and Japan was still Japan
Russia was ussr
Only because its convenient now to say Russia wasn’t ussr doesn’t mean that all the countries that were occupied think of themselves as ussr (as a nation****)
Satellite states and annexed countries =/= nation
A lot of countries had formed along other countries
Mostly unwillingly
Why make ussr exception
If we follow the game logic
Germany and Japan are represented as their ww2 counterparts
Just like Russia is represented as ussr
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Ah I think I get the point then.
A good example might be Korea, which was under Imperial Japanese control, but doesn’t mean the Koreas should become part of the Japanese tree, because in the modern day these don’t share a national identity.
A contrast to that is East Germany, which was still Germany and ended up unified, which is why it’s included as Germany in-game.
But also China can work as a different example, where there are two countries in the modern day that both claim the Chinese identity, so both are included in the Chinese tree despite not being the same country.
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Pretty much
If we add all ssr nations to ussr even tho they are their own nations currently, only bc they were occupied during ww2 is not much of a reason
No different form adding half of Asia to Japan as modern day
Half of Europe to Germany
And other half to ussr bc why not
But in game France already has Netherlands
And China (CCP) has Taiwan
In this case I think subtrees are different, since they were never meant as “part of the techtree nation”, only another nation that was chosen to share the tree because there is gameplay relevance, a historical connection and no modern day tensions.
I’d say China as a tree having both Chinas makes sense, lile how Germany has five different nations that are still Germany, two of which existed at the same time.
It’s not a subtree, just two different nations that are individually China, thus placed in the China tree. It’s not the PRC tree and not the ROC tree either, it’s the China tree.
The flag is a bit unfortunate since you can only have one per tree, but I think Gaijin just chooses the one used by most vehicles in the tree to stay out of any politics. You could probably do a split flag since both still exist in the modern day maybe, but considering all other nations only use one flag I don’t see a precedent for that.
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the oplot looks like sid from ice age if he was a tank
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Very true 😂
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Netherlands couldve easily have gone to Germany
But it didnt, just how Korea wont go to Japan
And Ukraine shouldnt go to ussr
having a flag in game from ww2 isnt big enough of a reason for a nation to be added as a subtree
So far, in game only sub tree nations that have been added, are either neutral, collaborating, or sharing technology
Example, Sweden - Finland, France - Netherlands, Japan - Thailand, UK - SA
If anyone wants to argue against UK and India, ill happily agree if you can bring good points
(im not familiar with Indian military)
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Netherlands couldn’t have gone to Germany without screwing up SB. It had nothing to do with Netherlands being a controversial choice for Germany, when it is rather the opposite due to how intertwined the modern Dutch military is with the German one to the point that all Dutch combat units, aside from their logistics, their air defense, and their Commandotroepen, are directly organized with the German military.
- Dutch 11 Airmobile Brigade integrated into the German Rapid Forces Division
- Dutch 13 Light Brigade integrated into the German 10. PzDiv
- Dutch 43 Mechanized Brigade integrated into the German 1. PzDiv, with the 414 Tank Battalion being a mixed Dutch-German unit organized under the 43 Mechanized Brigade
The Dutch would’ve made more sense to go to the British tree in lieu of not being sent to the German tree, since the Free Dutch were organized under the British Army during the Second World War and a large amount of Dutch equipment, both prior and after the war, came or comes from the United Kingdom. Though, since the United Kingdom already has Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and India by virtue of the Commonwealth, the Dutch were sent to the French instead as a part of the larger BeNeLux subtree, despite their military cooperation with and imports from France being minimal in comparison to both the United Kingdom and Germany.
So, the choice has nothing in common with why Korea will likely not go to Japan and Ukraine would likely not go to the USSR, the reasons for those two being political issues which I will not go into detail since they are already obvious with even a cursory Google search, and I don’t want to get blapped by the mods.
Kinda got my point and kinda missed it
some people say Ukraine should go to ussr bc Ukraine was part of ussr
Even tho its now its own country
If we say ussr in game is not russia, and should just be all ussr annexed regions, Ukraine must be a subtree
but by the same logic, Germany gets Netherlands, Japan gets Korea, maybe even China, but it doesnt work that way
There are 2 main reasons why it wouldn’t make sense
First off, as you say, current tensions,
Secondly, the games logic is already set to be the way it is (see my previous post)
what even is the original discussion about
USSR tree with its Soviet states is tangible to be put together (doesn’t mean its right, but its plausible). That means anything that was a part of the USSR at one point can be added. This includes the Baltics, Belarus, Kazakhstan, and Ukraine.
However the Warsaw pact nations, like Poland, Bulgaria, Czech, GDR is technically not a part of USSR (yes they were under the influence of USSR but not a proper member state), so they’re a bit more dubious in their inclusion to the tree.
However the inclusion of these nations which clearly has hostilities towards Soviet Union (and by extension Russia) should not be included due to obvious reasons. The option is to make a new eastern european tree which gives an alternative for these nations to go towards.
The problem is that there are quite a lot of nations if we were to grouped them in like this, which can result in disproportionate numbers of vehicles. Some nations which has tons of vehicles might not see the light of day, and in the opposite end of the spectrum nations with barely anything to offer would get sidelined
Simply put
Do I agree with Ukraine being put in the USSR tree? Not really.
Is it realistic if it were? if we’re not counting modern circumstances, then sure but most likely not.
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Following that logic, as I said before
Korea should go to Japan, Netherlands should go to Germany
This is really ridiculous, there are much more interesting camouflages from Japan that Gaijin doesn’t put in the game
This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.
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It is strange to think that Japan should have all the countries of Asia in WarThunder, according to the history of the war in the Pacific.