Wouldn’t be the first time, Germany sent leopards to the U.S to compete against the first Abrams models 2 weeks late and Germany even said it had armor when in fact it didn’t. Then they sent people out to look at the prototypes then claimed it was a “shipping issue” and that they sent the wrong vehicles. The main reason was because it wouldn’t have fit the weight requirements with the armor installed.
Im waiting for field tests for most of this doesn’t matter who makes the vehicle or were its sourced until its actually been used for training.
Literaly all already done.
Its still an leopard upgrade. Its just a new generation name.
APS, lws, roof armor etc all already exists on the 2a7a1 as example. There is gap protection now as well. But it doesnt do to much different.
You are making a joke out of yourself. In its essence its still a leopard and we know most of all its performance metrics outside the new ammunition thats already in testing progress with 2a7V. Potentiell new armor which will be classified either way as well.
I honestly dont know what you are expecting to be different that we dont know about the leopard that should be taken with a grain of salt.
When all main advertised features, are already in use somewhere
Well the new APU is something to be skeptical of, for example on the SEPV2s early on they had electrical issues working with all the new additions on the old legacy batteries. Which they then came in and upgraded, what im saying is there could be issues with adding all this stress on a battery for LWS, upgraded digital thermals, APS, APU, etc.
You said it here too, sure there may be more armor who knows until they come out about it. One things for sure smacking a bunch of composite over a massive bomb of an ammo rack isn’t going to solve the issue for horrific ammo placement. I would share images but im not sure if gaijin would allow it on this forum but leopards in turkey ran into this issue with the ammo racks.
This isn’t necessarily a good thing, like i said sure its still a leopard and sure maybe its better than 90% of eastern vehicles if you want to consider that, but ammo placement is still an issue. Along with new technology which im sure is good, but can the systems sustain themselves reliably in combat and more importantly can it compare to other western vehicles optics and survivability for foreign sale.
buddy, the APU is a thing since years, only cause the americans had problems with it doesnt means anything
german ammunition is stable to not explode when hit,
Considering leopards all things considered are the prefered mbt in a certain conflict right now i am not worried.
The 2a8 already has more orders from EU nations again compared to most other stuff.
KF51 in its essence is a leopard hull as well. Its a proven concept with a great hull
Since 2021, which doesn’t mean anything because with APS and LWS adding on it can affect the performance and life time of the battery and APU.
Again i cant really reply to this on the forum because they have been really hammering down on combat images or footage so, im gonna leave it at that.
This is purely political, many nations like Poland are looking everywhere for new vehicles not just Germany. There’s also more to this regarding logistics and parts availability not just the vehicle itself.
worthy pointing out.
Certain conflict doesnt use DM63 exclusively,
its often a mix and match, not mentioning old HE stock
Survivablitiy those of course is lower, if they dont use state of the art ammunition but rather gotta fight with donations from all over the world
Again its yes and no, they are planned to restart production but they for now are stripping old M1A2s, which still doesn’t make them the “same as 1980s Abrams”. For the amount of upgrades the SEPV3 has gone through its entirely new.
Also known as “Ship of Theseus paradox” if you build a ship or tank in this case with entirely new parts is it the same tank as before? No, because almost nothing is orignal.
The main difference is the abrams hull has had proven and visible changes to the armor on the internals. The leopard 2 series on the other hand has not had its issues reduced. On the other hand SEPS have improved the abrams and its flaws have been reduced. For example the commander optics have always been sub par on the leopard at least compared to nato standards but as i mentioned earlier in this forum its nice to see the upgrade. Not everything i said is negative towards the leopard.
Again, its not the the fact its old is the issue its the fact all these upgrades for the leopards have come out and still have yet to fix alot of main core issues.
Lower ammo rack
Engine reliability (sand filters and such)
Equipment life time
For the image you sent it doesnt really say much, it even says "overhaul chassis and “engine / transmission”. They made a whole new turret for the M1A2 series as it even says in your photo you sent, along with many other major upgrades. Even then the sep v2 had more armor added to the hull, now the sep v3 which you can see the armor upgrades and the new sensors. So calling it “the same 1980s abrams” is just denying the fact the entire vehicle was remade from the shell of the chassis.
Germans use insensitive ammunition.
I’m fairly certain someone else already explained this to you a number of comments above, so I’m not sure why you’re mentioning this again.
What’s that even supposed to mean? You’re being incredibly vague with that description.
Turret =/= hull.
You’ve made it very clear on numerous occasions now that you’re referring to the hull.
Don’t move the goalpost.
You’ve still not shown any evidence that the SEP v3 doesn’t use refurbished old M1/IPM1/M1A1 hulls.
[Citation Needed]
You keep moving the goalpost, making up strawmans so I don’t really see this discussion going anywhere productive, I’ll leave it here.
I said it here, remade from the ground up using the same “shell of the chassis”. I never moved that goal post, i agreed and said yes its the same hull but entirely refurbished.
Insensitive ammunition isn’t the be all and end all tho.
I assume that most insensitive ammunition’s are somewhat similar, and according to a French paper on their own variant, they still say that it’s only insensitive to KE, fire and HE, however it will still detonate if stuck by a HEAT jet.
Tbf, the hull is supposed to resist standard HEAT from both RPG and other tanks from the front and side, but they are still probably not completely protected from drone attacks using HEAT on top of the hull, meaning that this specific situation could bring a catastrophic ammo detonation.
The M1
