They absolutely should be 11.7, anyone saying different probably mains them, they continuously dominate matches and are at a br where they are 90% top tier
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It can also absorb the entire round and negate any ammo detonation.
centaur premium top tier is also made of glass, cv90120 is made of glass, hstvl glass, not having armor is no excuse and they are not as weak as a centaur or a cv90120 so please stop creating arguments for your own benefit
You talk about the Type 90 as if it were a CV90, which even a .50 cal can penetrate, stop defending the indefensible! The Leo2A4 has a competitive reload, average armor, and bad shells. No one complains about the Leo2A4, and you don’t see the Leo2A4 sweeping the map. The Type 90 dominates the BR because it most often faces down-tier opponents. With its mobility, 4-second reload, and very good shells for this BR, it basically destroys everything. Armor has never been and will never be a synonym for weakness
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shooting at the only armored part
True no armor doesn’t mean bad tank, but you’re wrong, the leopards do curbstomp. And the 90B and TKXP are great tanks but don’t really get many down tiers seeing that 10.3 is no longer the dominant high tier br, 10.7 is. Furthermore, a lot of popular 11.3 vehicles are now 11.7, and no, the armour is bad. It’s volumetric at times but more or less any shot from a higher caliber than 30mm will be able to kill the tank frontally. And if gaijin actually fixes volumetric that will not be as big of an issue.
The Type 90 and TKX(P) does not need to go up. They are fine where they are. They are very good simply cause the people who play them are extremely good players. It’s why Japan is crapped on by Gaijin so much. However, they are extremely weak and the mere fact that they have detailed interiors makes them suffer even more. Yes their mobility and 4 second reload make them seem OP, but that all they have going for them. Armor is dog awful, and one shot will normally kill them due to only 3 crew members.
Giving them a better shell, of which they never had anything better than JM33, just to increase the BR is stupid. You are just gonna have to deal with it. They are at that point where it if they go up they can’t do anything, but if they go down they are too OP. They can’t be moved cause no matter the direction they move them. It’s either useless or broken. So, no it does not need to go up.
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Oh boi , Alvis with another bad take
If 481mm pen isn’t enough at 11.3 and even 11.7. Then you might as well not play the tank
By this and the above logic. TKX/Type 10 shouldn’t be sitting with other 12.0. It is always funny seeing a tank that was fit for flanking have it armor brought up
If that not enough then might as well not play it ? Not even 11.7 premium can match the thing in a lot of department let alone a TT one
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@スカサハ
So me saying 481mm of pen is good is a bad take?
Prove that 481mm of pen is bad, I’ll wait.
Prove that Type 10 shouldn’t be sitting at 12.0, I’ll wait.
Keep claiming the entire forum has bad takes.
Where did i say that ? You the one saying “worst round at 11.3” can you even read or just cherry picking
this is following your logic. Don’t put your word into my mouth
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@スカサハ
Worst =/= bad.
And I never mentioned Type 10, you did.
So yeah, unless you were putting words in my mouth, those are YOUR statements for your beliefs.
???
Following your logic , i did not say that “Type 10 should not be at 12.0” rather what i said what “By your logic they shouldn’t”
Gotta love when they can’t even read but try to cherry pick anyway
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The reload is the only advantage they have over anything else.
They have the worst round at their BR by a significant margin, The Optics on the Type 90 are pretty meh, with gen1 thermals. (The TKX(P) has gen 3 though to be fair). Their armour is completely worthless too.
They are literally just a Leopard 2A4 with a faster reload.
I strongly disagree that they need to go up.
Just not playing the tank isn’t some magical solution and it thats the only option then that should be proof enough that its fine at its BR. And again, the grass isn’t always greener. Reload is nice, but i never have an issue dealing with them when i meet them, 4 seconds is more than enough time to shoot them. and they’re easy to pen, easy to oneshot and even if you dont oneshot you will most likely cripple it with a shot to the turret because of the huge autoloader bustle. If you just play with your brain actually on (not directly addressing anyone here) they’re not hard to deal with. It has its strengths and weaknesses but what it looks like you’re trying to imply that 4 second reload is some magical instant win against almost anything.
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don’t listen to him. he’s just a troll. look through his posts and you can see he does this all the time.
They should absolutely be 11.7, anyone saying otherwise plays them and don’t want their op vehicles moved…
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You have to know maps, positioning and play a bit of the mid field and long game.
If you’re dying to objectively the weakest rank in the game at high tier by dart and armor… you’re doing something wrong
Which, Tada! Everyone is, that’s why it does well.
It’s not brawling with anyone, if you shoot me 8/10 I’m dead.
I’m not winning a sniper battle, most tanks and can pen my cheeks even at range.
I’m good for one thing and one thing only, flanking.
So start looking left and right instead of forward and you’d do a lot better.
There’s nothing a type 10 or 90 does better than any other tank except drive faster than most tanks and reload faster than all. It’s a flanking tank, and if you’re watching your left and right, you should be fine-ish(you can’t see everything).
Driving out in the open and defending yourself against only the tanks in front of you is exactly how I get my kills. Not by rolling into the point and brawling with everyone because just about everywhere you hit me, pens and does real damage.
Well…
Red = Only taking out a crew member.
Yellow = Taking out Breech / Commander + Gunner (allowing you to shoot again).
Green = 1-shot very likely.
Nothing = Penetration very unlikely / unreliable.
In hull down position, I’d honestly take the TKX (P) over the M1A1, but I can definitely agree with you that I’d generally take the M1A1 over the Type 90 in hull down position.
Although the extra pen on the M1A1 is nice, the 4s reload is also really nice with the TKX (P). The TKX (P) also gets better gun depression (~-12 instead of -10) if they’re using suspension controls, and Gen 2 thermals with pretty good optics. I think the TKX (P) is definitely better hull-down than the M1A1 - at least in most cases.
If it’s not hull-down, though, I’d take the M1A1 in most cases if I wanted to survive / tank incoming rounds ( to a certain degree).
TKX (P) has 27.0 HP/TON while M1A1 has 26.6. TKX (P) has similar top speed as M1A1, but has a much better reverse speed (70km/h). So TKX (P) wins in mobility.
TKX (P) vs Type 90 is a bit more interesting. TKX (P) has the better reverse speed, but Type 90 has 30hp/ton, so it accelerates much better.
I’d give the Type 90 the better mobility out of the three.
The M1A1 has better turret rotation speed (40 degrees per second, instead of 30 for the TKX (P) and Type 90), but has issues with the NATO hump - something that can be avoided with the TKX (P) and Type 90. As well as the aforementioned extra gun depression via suspension control, the Japanese vehicles generally have better versatility than the M1A1.
As for firepower, the M1A1 has a pretty good round for 11.3, but it’s still not enough pen to reliably UFP of the T-80UM2.
I’d say it’s very strong with the 5s reload.
As for the Type 90 / TKX (P), the DM33 equiv round is good, but not amazing - one of the lowest penning rounds at 11.3… but you can make do with a lot of things - especially weakspots like on the turret ring of the Abrams (~62mm of effective armour anyways).
Because of the low pen, it produces less spall than other rounds, so it’s a bit less easy to 1-shot reliably.
However, the 4s reload over the 5s reload on the M1A1 is great (25% longer reload in the M1A1 than the Type 90 / TKX (P)). This also allows you to bait people or recover from a bad shot much quicker than any other MBT.
I’d say they’re mostly equal - but it largely depends on the situation.
High pen is more useful for long-range sniping - where hitting weakspots is harder, but faster reload really helps getting multiple kills and finishing off opponents quicker.
For those who think the M1A1 is overperforming at 11.3 now that it gets M829A1 + 5s reload, I don’t think so. At least not any more than the Type 90 and TKX (P) is.
As for the T-80UM2 / T-80UK / T-80U, I’d say they’re all overtiered by 0.3, but I don’t think you can simply move them down since it would make T-90 / MBT-2000 / ZTZ-99-II/III mostly inferior (and so forth).
They don’t do anything particularly well other than have good armour, but pretty poor survivability, versatility, mobility, and mediocre firepower.
Most maps are close range anyways (Thanks Gaijin), so I’d take the 4s reload + DM33 most of the time. Close range maps also doesn’t really let you play hull-down, so I’d rather take the M1A1 if I wanted to tank shots. As for city maps (also CQC), it’s genereally better to be mobile and versatile, so I’d generally take the Type 90 / TKX (P) over the M1A1.
Good players prefer being mobile and still have good firepower / reload rate because good players can avoid getting shot in the first place by good positioning (something that better mobility / versatility can buy).
No wonder good players love the Type 90 so much, as well as stuff like the PT-16, M1A1, AGS, Leo 2K, and AMX-40.
I think most NATO MBTs need to be moved up by 0.3, starting from 11.3.
No reason why the M1 Abrams should be facing Type 90s, or the 2A4 against the M1A1 HC.
I mean, what is this???
Ariete (P)'s only definining quality is its great firepower, but it gets overshadowed by a vehicle with better armour, better survivability, better versatility, better reload, and better mobility - all at just a 0.7 BR increase. (Of course I’m talking about the Type 90 here).
Most 11.3s / 11.7s NATO MBTs are leagues better than most (if not all) 10.7s, which is enough to warrant a 1.0 and 1.3 BR difference for them, respectively.
We can probably keep the Ariete PSO at 11.7, as well as keeping the Leclerc / Challies at 12.0 since they’re struggling at their respective BRs anyways.
Holy skill issue post. You might tank a few shots in a down tier, or have overpens in an up tier, or even AT your own BR, but it’s not OP.
