Ok it’s like this - we all know some trees are horrible regarding balancing. Everyone knows it regardless of what modality (air, ground, naval) or main nation you are. I think the time has come to seriously reexmine the role of the uptier. I really think that reducing the span to +/- 0.5 is something long past due. If the issue is match packing, the wait times already suck slimey rocks and I personally see nothing wrong with bot packing. And I honestly believe that arguments in favor of the all too often over the top seal clubbing with the current uptier/downtier of 1.0 are frankly just from trolls. Thoughts?
5 Likes
Hard no.
Time to break things down.
In World of Tanks there is 10 tiers and a 2 & 3 matchmaker.
10/2 is 5, and 10/3 is 3 1/3 separation, it’s weird and convoluted because it’s in base ten.
War Thunder isn’t reliant on a tier system. It has… 34 “tiers” in ground, and 40 “tiers” in air.
The matchmaker is 4 [1.0 BR].
40/4 = 10.
And 34/4 = 8.5.
Even where WoT ends [equivalent to War Thunder’s 8.0 BR] that’s 22/4 = 5.5. Less compressed overall.
1 [0.3] compressed BR can and does impact up to 5.0 BRs. That does not mean 5 BRs are compressed, it means that 1 [0.3] BR is compressed and decompressing that BR can fix all 5 of the impacted BRs.
Decompressing 9.3 air RB for example would decompress 7.0 - 10.7. 0.3 BR change in decompression for 3 BRs of fixes, or 3x3 = 9 “tiers” of fixes.
The matchmaker set at 4 [1.0 BR] is great and extremely powerful for balancing.
Fixing the final few BRs that are compressed will “fix” everything.
2 Likes
yep, great explanation, almost all balance problems are caused by BR compression.
1 Like
Packing the game with bots killed any enjoyment I had left in enlisted and did the same for naval after I finished the grind, killing bots is boring.
The bigger problem with match making is population, if you could see a slice of the MM when it looks to put together matches you would see certain non premium BRs have like 20% of the population if not less than premium BRs and this creates soft brackets were being at the bottom of it sucks real bad. There is absolutely no fairness or randomness to the MM, if you want good MM you need to find a BR that doesn’t have a bunch of premiums above it, but also has a good number below it. Right now in air 12.7 premiums are eating so good its unreal, there are no premiums above them, the biggest population above them is 14.0 which they can’t see, and there is an absolute gob of premiums at 11.7 and 12.0 that drag it down every single match almost. For ground one of the best BRs to play at is 9.7, you have a ton of 9.0 premiums dragging you down, and while you have 10.3 and 10.7 premiums above you, you can only see 4 10.7 and they are getting dragged up all the time out of your MM so 9.7 goes down to 9.0 all the time instead of getting dragged up.
Seal clubbers deliberately going into dead BRs to guarantee downtiers in tanks that cannot actively be penned (German and Russian heavies)? No way!
Sorry but my experience with 99% percents of bots in games is that they are either lobotomites or Shodan. There is no in between. neither simulates player well enough for my enjoyment.
bot will be reversing in sherman in the middle of the map and driving in circles with reaction time of rotten potato but the second its algorithm detects your tank being 1mm exposed 2km away through 20 trees he will absolutely snipe your forehead in unit of time so small it takes the entiriety of worlds supercomputer to measure it.
1 Like
Maybe AI advancements will see games getting more intelligent and human like bots eventually, but they might have to be trained on player data for that specific game. But ya right now like you said they are basically one of 2 extremes. The bots in enlisted were either absolutely retarded, or basically hacking. Neither is particularly fun to fight.
Can you translate that into english?
And I have to say, I’m skeptical that fixing a “few BRs” will fix everything.
There really is no need to have a default full BR spread so that (as one example) WW II heavy tanks are facing cold war light and medium tanks that can easily pen their glacis plates. There are enough players at any time to start a battle with a 2-peg uptier and not a 3-peg uptier.
1 Like
What about instead of .3 br gaps having .1? Things that are problematic at a certain br but not worth throwing up .3 could move up slightly, and things that cant go down but are bad at the br they are at could go down slightly.
0.3 BR of decompression decompresses 1.7 - 5.0 BRs depending on where it is.
Like when 8.3 ground was decompressed by 0.3 and it impacted 6.7 - 10.0.
That would not do anything. Its just your brain seeing bigger number and assuming bigger change.
Imagine two systems. One is 1-100 br it it goes up by 1br. The second is 1-10 br and goes up by 0.1br.
Both are the exact same but you might assume the 10 br uptier is worse than the 1br uptier
Changing it to 0.1 br steps would decrease the max br to like 5.0 or something
Don’t think you understand what I meant, keep the current BR spread but increase the definition to .1 instead of .3.
Ah, i see. In that case, just increase the max br. Would have the same effect.
To have the same effect you would need to increase the BR range by 3x and also increase uptier/downtier to +3/-3
Yes
The issue is that gaijin wants X tiers. We need to change their stance on that