Tiger II (P) and (H)

Machinery of War Discussion Ground Vehicle
126

Well, my bad, I said HEAT-FS, but M-51’s HEAT shell is not just a regular WW2 HEAT shell. Its design allows it to have 400mm of pen just like HEAT-FS.

HEAT-FS shells have more pen, because they make the shell accurate without having to spin it with rifling. The spin from the rifling causes HEAT shells to lose pen.

M-51’s shell casing spins, but the core doesn’t, so it doesn’t lose pen. I say M-51’s shell, but it’s really an AMX-30’s shell.

Since in the game the penetration is determined by the… penetration value, not physics, the difference between HEAT shells and HEAT-FS shells is only the name and icon (and shell’s 3D model? idk if they model them so you can see them in slow mo)

exactly, it’s a:
-glass cannon - powerful gun
-rat - easy to hide with
-fast

It’s all any good player needs from a tank at this BR (laser range finders and stabilizers aren’t a thing here yet, or at least not common or advanced)

While Tiger 2 may not die in one shot to them, it will lose the gunner or gun breach, which makes it as good as dead. It can soak up shots from smaller HEAT rounds, but it’s only postponing the inevitable.

You can reliably kill a Tiger 2 in 2 shots with a 90mm HEAT and in one shot with a 105mm HEAT.

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127

and a tiger 2 reliably one shots everything

means you faced a player that knows its one main weakpoint, you werent gonna win no matter

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128

Tiger 2’s gun is very good, you can’t deny that.

But it’s not the best in every way, like some people try to say. The extra pen of HEAT shells at this BR matters.

Tiger 2 has 79mm of pen at 60 degrees and it drops with distance, an M-51 has 200mm of pen at 60 degrees and it doesn’t drop with distance. A Tiger 2 won’t pen T-44’s UFP, IS-2 1944’s UFP or T-95’s frontal armor, but a HEAT shell will, easily, at pretty much any angle you might encounter.

A HEAT shell will penetrate any conventional armor at any distance, from any angle, apart from maybe an angled Maus for 90mm HEAT shells.

Doesn’t that mean the player I faced just has a superior vehicle?

Besides, shooting the gunner and breach is a pretty common knowledge

Tiger 2 has an amazing gun and frontal hull armor, but that’s where its strengths end.

The turret is a massive weakspot on both variants, the entire side armor is 80mm, not bad, but not exactly invincible. And all the armor is irrelevant anyway when you meet HEAT shells.

Its mobility was bad but workable and that’s the only reason it was still a pretty good tank at 6.7. It had a very good gun and a workable mobility.

Now its only real strength is the gun.

I’m actually quite happy it got nerfed, because it means it WILL move down in BR (it’s just a matter of time) and meet more historical opponents AND it won’t be too strong for this BR reduction. It will be slightly more like a heavy tank, slow with good armor and gun.

I’m just baffled that some people legitimately thought that Tiger 2s were dominating 6.7 and it’s a nerf everyone has been waiting for lmao

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129

Me too tbh, like sure it has a good gun but I CHERISH the thought of running up against them in my British and Fr*nch lineups, it makes me so happy to see something so easy to kill…

130

Not those piles of junk 😭

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131

They were. Tiger II (H) pre-nerf was a 7.0 no question.

132

No it really wasn’t

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133

Magik is correct for the Serienturm - we know this fact because Gaijin told us. Like I said earlier:

The pre-series Tiger II is a whole other story.

134

Even against moderns it definitely has that old man strength that if you underestimate it will KO’d you

Funny how when you bring the grandpa to somewhere he is not supposed to be, you’ll start seeing things he could kill more easily than in his natural habitat, only thing he lacks is reaction speed but if he hits you then expect to be hit by George Foreman and wake up in the hospital

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135

Yes, you’re right, we need to change our game strategy. I Knowing that I don’t have an agile tank and always have to move around sadly I don’t like waiting for prey. What I don’t understand is why they put these tanks in simulator battles against tanks that are 10 or more years younger, more modern and agile. In any case, the game is heavily unbalanced, even in simulators, in terms of tank selection.

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136

Sim lobbies aren’t very populated. Giving minors competitive lineups helps. Right now it’s in this weird in between where some lineups are ahistorical while others are fully historical. I would prefer if they made up their mind and just went with balance instead. If an EBR can be in the late WW2 bracket, so can the LekPanzer. If the ASU 85 can be in that bracket, so can the Jagdpanzer 4-5. And yet they are not. The inconsistency is very odd.

BTW. This whole talk of engine governors have reminded me of something. In “The Tanks Of Operation Barbarossa, Soviet versus German Armour on the Eastern Front”, Kavalerchik (2018) claims the following:

“For example, in 1941-1943, when the air temperature was above 25° C, the T-34’s engine would overheat after 12 minutes running at 400 horsepower. In these conditions, it could continually generate only 315 horsepower, which limited the tank’s speed to 30km/h”.

I wonder if I should bug report it, since reliability is apparently a technical characteristic that is becoming a part of ground forces too, even if piecemeal (in air it’s already the case after all).

It would be an interesting mechanic, having to manage your engine’s temperature on hot weather maps, and not even that big of a nerf, considering that 12 minutes is longer than the average duration of a spawn… but if you do survive the whole battle with your T-34, it would be something to look out for. Realism, after all.

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138

Your consideration about the T34 is correct. It would be right; a lot of players want the “true history” about tanks (same characteristics), and battles should also be with tanks that actuallyfought each others, as history teaches us.

139

I started this thread because of what I thought about the latest (Nerf) they did to the Tiger II. A lot of people replied that it’s right because the tank has to be as close to history as possible. It would be right; a lot of players want the “true history” about tanks (same characteristics), and battles should also be with tanks that actually fought each others as history teaches us.

140

Finally something we can agree on.
Tigers getting in line with other 6.7 heavies is a good thing.

He excluded 5.7s like downtiers don’t happen.

141

unless its a mk2 centurion which is fully stabilised with a 17pdr i cant say you ever faced a superior vehicle, but even that is vapourised by your gun easily

142

For the whole of July 2025 - so before the engine nerf - the Tiger II H ranks 146th among Rank IV vehicles for its win rate. If you limit the comparison to just German vehicles, it does not even make the top ten, falling behind even other 6.7 German vehicles like the Elefant and the SPz 12 (which was still 6.7 at the time). The Sla comes in at #124.

The situation is better when one looks at K/D, where it is 49th, though once again it is not in the top ten of the best German vehicles in Rank 4 under that metric.

As for the Sla, it’s 17th for K/D in Rank IV, and 5th among German vehicles.

I am the first to repeat over and over that the Serienturn Tiger IIs are very strong vehicles in WT. But let’s not exaggerate and pretend they are the best, or most meta, vehicles in their bracket.

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143

need i remind you of who plays these vehicles. most tiger 2 players are far newer to the game than most at the BR, they suck ass and skew winrates with as much gravity as a black hole.

the tiger 2 SLA was never much of an improvement over the production tiger 2 in game and still isnt. just shows that once a player is comfortably enough to spend money in game they have enough experience under their belt to do very well.

I genuinley cant think of anything more meta at 6.7. theres broken op stuff like ratel 20 but as an overall package the tiger 2 is the cream of the crop

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144

I knew you would say this, which is why I included numbers for German-only comparisons. The SPz has hardly been setting the world on fire since it came into the game. And unless the Ferdinand is exclusively played by better players, you need to look past the German main trope to evaluate the effectiveness of the Tiger IIs.

However, its advantage is in one crucial area: mobility. That is true even now post nerf.

There is nothing more meta in WT than mobility when it comes to winning matches, though not necessarily when it comes to kills. Tiger IIs are great killers - though even then not the best, but they’re very competitive. But they’re not great at influencing a match’s outcome.

Ok, but here you are contradicting yourself. You say the only reason the Tiger IIs are not #1 statwise is the players. Now you say that the Sla has better players. If that’s true, how come it’s not #1 among German vehicles at 6.7 at the very least?

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145

that is exactly what im saying, nobody plays everything at once and why would anyone with as little knowledge on armour as a new player that picked germany think to use the ferdinand when they just unlocked a leopard 1 at the same time?

still think the increased mobility of the SLA over the real tiger 2 is very overrated, its better now that the changes were a bit inaccurate but meh thats premium bias for you.

by that logic i should win every BR matches in a tetrach. Its a combination of comprimise between gun, armour and mobility. Tiger 2 has near enough the perfect balance for that BR.

what is your list for this information? as this could probably answer a lot for 6.7

146

How about the M41D? This thing is a menace if you know how to play it…