and imo its a terrible mechanic that needs to be removed.
100% immunity to a vast number of top tier SAM systems just by flying lo?
Meanwhile, SACLOS and IIR arent affected in the same way?
Its BS
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IIR missiles require DL to reach the target. Unlike ARH if you break LOS it goes into IOG. ARH always follows you as soon as you get into the range of the seeker, which in case of stuff like BUK is literally on release (love 70km pitbull)
SACLOS also requires LOS, try hitting an Su30 thats flying low below horizon with Ito or Flakbus or Pantsir.
ARH on the other hand gets a lock either as soon as its in range or right out of the tube and requires only a momentary pop up on the radar to fully track in on the plane.
They will eventually have to not fly “lo”
And you are entitled to your opinion, should it happen tho i do hope youll enjoy being unable to play a single game of GRB with CAS (i know you like your typhoons, good luck with that lol) where the air spawns isnt shielded by some form of a mountain.
it really isnt. I could agree atmost with helicopters but when it comes to planes, it isnt. Majority of the MP altitude is on average already occupied by trees. Not every map has flat terrain to use as MP. That coupled with other planes coupled with your proposed “no MP” will make CAS other than the russian and the MKM not really exist.
You wont achieve much other than make the game worse.
But thats just my opinion.
That is the whole point
10 meter multipath is a guaranteed splash even with smaller ARHs
Also thank you for proving my point that all you can do is intercept missiles and not kill planes
me when i lie
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you when you dont understand how IR (IIR) missiles work. Only missile that doesnt have a DL at top tier is literally SLS which has extremely limited range. CSSA5, SLM, CLAWS/NASAMS all have DL.
for example another game:
just because i used one screenshot to illustrate my Kh38ML point doesnt mean that thats all that the system can do. Additionally i dont know if you just dont know or understand how the battle log preview functions but that is me hovering over “munitions intercepted” which is why there isnt any plane on that screenshot.
In that specific match i was fighting Su30s doing the Kh38ML airfield strat and i was more focused on intercepting the missiles to prevent them from killing others in spawn than killing the planes that half the time i couldnt see due to them being on airfield.
Python 5 doesn’t have datalink
Most of my shots with the FB-10A were with IR lock (10km range all aspect btw), not via DL
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forgot that one, yea.
Ok? it still has it??? If the IR lock doesnt kick in then it stays in DL phase and can be affected by breaking LOS and changing position to avoid IOG. Same as on SLM.
Okay and? ARH missiles are the exact same but they can lock targets (that are moving fast enough) from 6km further while actively screaming at the person they are launched at
they arent, i literally talked about it above.
like genuinely i dont understand how you can say that its the same when it isnt…
oh no, the extremely fast ARH missile is screaming at the person, surely this will give them enough time to get into a notch and successfuly notch it every time no matter the situation or distance from the launcher platform
Assuming the missile starts and remains at 1070m/s, the target has 16 seconds of warning in order to notch
That is 10 more seconds than what an average player needs
one of many problems with anti air in game, i missed 2 9x shots(not counting the double missiles here) on a su24 because of datalink
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Your entire assumption is so weird.
Most CAS attacks happen roughly around the 11km mark, since that is roughly where the IR seekers are able to go from point to track. With FM3000 specifically which is somewhat on the slower end of the missiles reaching that range takes roughly 15ish seconds (from what i was looking around ~15km hit on clueless flanker took roughly 20 seconds, so 11-10km would probably be roughly around 15-16 sec to hit). But this is assuming that the target is stationary, however planes tend to fly closer, reducing the distance further in part reducing the TtH down.
During this time the plane has to not only find you and fire off its ordinance but also then go into a notch right after.
Now when it comes to HQ11, its a good SPAA but of the top tier ones it is slower than the rest. BUKs, Asters, CAMMERs even AmraamERs all have much more powerful boosters with much higher speed to reach these distances easier. Reducing the TtH down massively to just few seconds.
So this argument about notching being “10 more seconds than what an average player needs” feels like its very much been made in bad faith. HQ11 is not the only ARH SPAA at top tier, nor the fastest and using it as some sort of a benchmark feels like youre very much just choosing one edge case to apply to all.
You could also have used the Derby SRs that are also awful and it would be the same type of argument.
In comparison, CAMM-ER has roughly twice the velocity of HQ11s FM3K at the end of its booster stage that lasts twice as long. BUK has a bit more than CAMM-ER, Asters are roughly 3x as fast after booster stage that lasts only 3.75s and amraam ER is roughly 1.5x faster after 4s booster. And this is just boosters, not the additional speed from sustainers.
With that in mind that entire 10 seconds more than what an average player needs for notching kind of fails. And keep in mind like i said, the planes are not static, the distance and time will be reduced the longer the plane approaches the launcher.
Should have used aim120 for munitions and kept 9x for planes imo
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IR seekers like 9Xs and SLMs have issues with targeting ordinance. Youre way better off using ARH missiles like C7s or AmraamERs to intercept missiles and save 9Xs for when the enemy plane gets closer.
No. Realism doesn’t always equal fun. The SPAA systems as is are in a good spot and many nations are still missing the muntions and tech purposely designed to defeat AA systems like HARMs and stealth. The easier fix would be addressing helicopters which seem to be a bigger threat to SPAA than planes.
2 Likes
Finally, someone with the good sense to realise that they are already good, and that if you remove the multipatch, it becomes impossible to play online due to poor map design and lack of weaponry.
ARH seeker wouldve freaked out because the kh29s are too close to each other and wouldve hit neither
Well then, the debate that CAS is OP has been settled
I just think, in terms of difficulty and viability between the two, they’re roughly the same. They are both platforms hurling stuff at each other. There is really no map with an airspawn outside of the range these modern AA systems have, which means planes are technically already at a disadvantage. The moment you spawn a plane, you are already getting pinged by an SPAA, so removing one of two methods of staying alive is…well dumb. As people have pointed out, helicopters seem to have a bubble around them that makes dealing with them a pain, so fix that. No need to take a blunt baseball bat to a problem a scapel can fix.
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Yes, because it isn’t, and people need to know how to play. Simple.
type 03 is the worst example for the topic, only arh, no TVC, 6m radius fuse, missiles fall of the sky at 18km in low altitude, its pathetic, no wonder it has the lowest K/D of top tier