The Suffering Endured By German Tech Tree Players " SİMULATİON WARS "

Folks, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but while we grapple with the absurdity of bombers acting like the Nebuchadnezzar hovercraft from The Matrix—picking us fighter pilots off one by one like Sentinels—and the fact that the 30mm MK 108 cannons are utterly useless, I want to revisit some issues I’ve long been aware of and have discussed before.

To be honest, I’m a player who sticks to the German tech tree; air simulation is my preferred mode.

For instance, I fly the Fw 190 A-1, which entered service in August 1941. Yet, at the same Battle Rating (BR), I face the Yak-1b (introduced October 1942) and the American P-51C-10 or the Ki-61-Ib Hien (introduced February 1943).

I want to fly the Bf 109 F-4 (introduced June 1941), but I’m up against the P-51C-10 (early 1944) and the Yak-9T (early 1943). Spitfire models could use some rebalancing; the Mk IX, for example, could be a 4.2 BR. In that regard, the British have actually been treated unfairly—though, to be honest, I never see anyone flying Spitfire models other than that “LF” monster.

I want to fly the Bf 109 G-2, but I’m facing the C-10 again, along with that monstrosity known as the Yak-3 (introduced June 1944).

I want to fly the G-6; it’s a late-model aircraft that entered service in November–December 1943. Yet, I find myself facing the Yak-3 and the P-38L-5-LO (introduced in June 1944)—not to mention the MB.5, a plane on par with the Do 335.

I want to fly the G-14; at least it’s chronologically appropriate for its tier, but then I run into the Spitfire LF—a monster akin to the Soviet IS-3. Frankly, in this BR range, if I try to dogfight a P-51, it smartly escapes using its high speed; if I engage in a vertical energy or turn fight, the P-51’s energy reserves seem bottomless, and I lose even to pilots with only moderate experience. I won’t even touch the LF series—neither energy fighting nor turn fighting works; bailing out is the best option. However, against the Soviets, there is a fighting chance—provided there’s no Yak-3 around. I might add more thoughts as they come to me.

I want to fly the Bf 109 G-10 (introduced October–November 1944), but I face the P-51D-30 (an April 1945 model). Frankly, since the G-10 is a bit more sluggish than the K-4, the Spitfire LF and Yak-3 take me out at low altitude, while American models in skilled hands—with their incredible high-speed turn capability—push me out of the game at medium-to-high altitudes. Furthermore, the Spitfire F Mk. VIII and E models were tested in July 1945 and sit at a 5.3 BR. It’s a joke; while some models are balanced or even outdated, the LF variant is far more capable.

I ask myself, “Can I play the K-4?”—which received its final upgrade in March 1945—only to find myself facing the Corsair F4U-4B model, equipped with the R-2800-42W engine that entered service in 1946. Thank God, at least they haven’t placed the P-51H model—with its 5.7 BR—against us this time.

As you can see. And I haven’t even touched upon the farces in tank simulation mode yet; I might add those later if they come to mind. Frankly, you could apply these same imbalances to tank simulation as well.

That’s the situation.

I want to emphasize—specifically—that in some cases, despite there being counterparts to the aircraft in question, more advanced models produced at a later date stubbornly remain at a lower BR.

In other words, the game developers are telling us, “You’re fools; you have to fight against aircraft that vastly outperform your own.”

Friends, speaking for myself: I am no fool. I protest these injustices.

The solution is to voice these problems on every platform.

In the early days of the game, the Panzer IV used to be pitted against the T-34-85 in ground sim battles—even though the Panther D was available. That issue was resolved after players spoke up about it. If this problem is voiced loudly enough, a solution might emerge here, too.

Honestly, I’m staying away from air sim battles these days. I’m staying away because I encounter the problems I listed above in every single match, without exception. Of course, you can’t tell the players on the other side, “You shouldn’t be playing this”; after all, they are simply entering battle at the designated BR. For that matter, those “Death Star” bombers have completely ruined aerial combat; it’s gotten completely out of hand.

Finally, folks, don’t engage in these battles. But if you do, make sure to point out the unfairness I mentioned earlier—no matter which battle it is. And please, support me on this. Nothing will change as long as you stay silent.

Unfortunately for you gaijin has made it pretty apparent that we will never see service date balancing so you will have to make do with that.

Personally i agree on the matter for balancing reasons especially when it comes to regards of tanks, because there would not be much player retainment if someone was playing a panzer 3 against a KV-1.

If i remember correctly WWM did this but since the “test” a while ago we haven’t seen or heard anything regarding it so it might as well be dead in the water.

1 Like

poor timing

datamine from gzabi99 on snailmine
    • A-20G-25, A-20G-25 [USSR], A-26B-15, A-26B-50, A-26C-45, A-26C-45 (17th Bomb Gp.), A-29, Ar 234 B-2, Ar 234 B-2 (W.B. 151), Ar 234 C-3, Ar-2, B 18A, B 18B, B-10B, B-17E (early), B-17E (late), B-17E [JPN], B-17G-60, B-17G-60 [ISR], B-18A, B-24D-140, B-25J-1, B-25J-20, B-25J-30 [CHN], B-25J-30 [USSR], B-25K (“SB-25J”), B-26B [JPN], B-26C-20, B-26C-20 [FRA], B-29A-20, B-34, B-52H-140, B-57B, B-66B, Beaufort Mk. VIII, Blenheim Mk. IV, Bloch 162-01, Boston Mk. I, BR.20 DR, BR.20M M1, BV 238, Canberra B. Mk. 2, Canberra B. Mk. 2 (51-17352) (“B-57A”) [USA], Canberra B.(I.) Mk. 6, Catalina Mk. IIIa, DB-3 [CHN], DB-3B, DB-7-B3, Do 17 E-1, Do 17 Z-2, Do 217 E-2, Do 217 E-4, Do 217 J-1, Do 217 J-2, Do 217 K-1, Do 217 M-1, Do 217 N-1, Do 217 N-2, F.222.2-BN5, Fw 200 C-1, G4M1, G5N1, G8N1, H6K4, H8K2, H8K3, Halifax B. Mk. III, Hampden Mk. I, Hampden Mk. I [USSR], Hampden T.B. Mk. I, Havoc Mk. I, He 111 H-3, He 111 H-6, He 111 H-16, He 115 C-1, He 177 A-3/R3, He 177 A-5/R3, Hudson Mk. V, Il-4, Il-28, Il-28 [CHN], Il-28 [DEU], Il-28 [ITA], Il-28Sh, Ju 88 A-1, Ju 88 A-4, Ju 88 A-4 [SWE], Ju 188 A-2, Ju 288 C, Ju 388 J, Ki 21-I Hei, Ki 21-I Kō, Ki 48-II Otsu, Ki 49-I, Ki 49-II Kō, Ki 49-II Otsu, Ki 49-II Otsu (late), Ki 67 Kō, Ki 67 Otsu, Ki 109, Lancaster Mk. I, Lancaster Mk. III, Lincoln B. Mk. 2, Martin 139WC, Me 264, N.C.223.3-BN5, O/400, P1Y1, P1Y1 [CHN], P4Y-2 [CHN], P.108B I, P.108B II, PB4Y-2, PB4Y-2 [FRA], PBJ-1H, PBJ-1J, PBM-1, PBM-3, PBY-5, PBY-5A, PBY-5A [FRA], PBY-5A [USSR], Pe-2-1, Pe-2-31, Pe-2-83, Pe-2-110, Pe-2-205, Pe-2-359, Pe-2-359, Pe-3-1, Pe-3-2, Pe-3bis, Pe-8, Potez 633-B2, PV-2D, SB 2M-100, SB 2M-103, SB 2M-103 (MV-3), SB 2M-103U, SB 2M-103U (MV-3), SB 2M-105, SB-3 [CHN], Shackleton M.R. Mk. 2, Stirling B. Mk. I, Stirling B. Mk. III, Su-8, Sunderland G.R. Mk. IIIa, Sunderland G.R. Mk. V, T 2, T 18B-1, T 18B-2, TB-3 4M-17, TIS (MA), Tu-1, Tu-2, Tu-2 [CHN], Tu-2S-10, Tu-2S-44, Tu-2S-59, Tu-2Sz-59 [ITA], Tu-4, Tu-4 [CHN], Tu-14T, Tu-95M, Vautour II A, Vautour II B, Vautour II N (C), Washington B. Mk. I, Wellington B. Mk. III, Wellington B. Mk. X, Wellington Mk. Ic, Wellington Mk. Ic (1941), Wellington Mk. Ic [DEU], Yak-28B, Yer-2 (M-105) (MV-3), Yer-2 (M-105) (TAT-BT), Yer-2 (M-105R), Yer-2 (M-105R) (LU-MV-2B), Yer-2-3 (ACh-30B), Yer-2-4 (ACh-30B):
    • fire duration increased by 54%
    • A-20G-25, A-20G-25 [USSR], A-26B-15, A-26B-50, A-26C-45, A-26C-45 (17th Bomb Gp.), A-29, Ar-2, B 18A, B 18B, B-10B, B-17E (early), B-17E (late), B-17E [JPN], B-17G-60, B-17G-60 [ISR], B-18A, B-24D-140, B-25J-1, B-25J-20, B-25J-30 [CHN], B-25J-30 [USSR], B-25K (“SB-25J”), B-26B [JPN], B-26C-20, B-26C-20 [FRA], B-29A-20, B-34, Be-6, Beaufort Mk. VIII, Blenheim Mk. IV, Bloch 162-01, Bloch 174-A3, Bloch 175 T, Boston Mk. I, BR.20 DR, BR.20M M1, BV 138 C-1, BV 238, Catalina Mk. IIIa, DB-3 [CHN], DB-3B, DB-7-B3, Do 17 E-1, Do 17 Z-2, Do 17 Z-7, Do 217 E-2, Do 217 E-4, Do 217 J-1, Do 217 J-2, Do 217 K-1, Do 217 M-1, Do 217 N-1, Fw 200 C-1, G4M1, G5N1, G8N1, H6K4, H8K2, H8K3, Halifax B. Mk. III, Hampden Mk. I, Hampden Mk. I [USSR], Hampden T.B. Mk. I, Havoc Mk. I, He 111 H-3, He 111 H-6, He 111 H-16, He 115 C-1, He 177 A-3/R3, He 177 A-5/R3, Hudson Mk. V, Il-4, Ju 88 A-1, Ju 88 A-4, Ju 88 A-4 [SWE], Ju 188 A-2, Ju 288 C, Ju 388 J, Ki 21-I Hei, Ki 21-I Kō, Ki 48-II Otsu, Ki 49-I, Ki 49-II Kō, Ki 49-II Otsu, Ki 49-II Otsu (late), Ki 67 Kō, Ki 67 Otsu, Ki 109, LéO 451-BN4, LéO 451-BN4 (Sep 1940), Martin 139WC, Martin 167-A3, Me 264, P1Y1, P1Y1 [CHN], P4Y-2 [CHN], P.108A II, P.108B I, P.108B II, PB4Y-2, PB4Y-2 [FRA], PBJ-1H, PBJ-1J, PBM-1, PBM-3, PBM-5A, PBY-5, PBY-5A, PBY-5A [USSR], Pe-2-1, Pe-2-31, Pe-2-83, Pe-2-110, Pe-2-205, Pe-2-359, Pe-2-359, Pe-3-1, Pe-3-2, Pe-3bis, Pe-8, Potez 630-C3, Potez 631-C3, Potez 633-B2, PV-2D, Qing 6, S-79B [DEU], S-79B [ITA], S.81, S.M.79 AS, S.M.79 AS [DEU], S.M.79 I, S.M.79 I [DEU], S.M.79 IV [DEU], S.M.79 VIII, S.M.79 VIII [DEU], S.M.79bis/N [DEU], S.M.79bis/T.M, S.M.79bis/T.M [DEU], SB 2M-100, SB 2M-103, SB 2M-103 (MV-3), SB 2M-103U, SB 2M-103U (MV-3), SB 2M-105, SB-3 [CHN], Stirling B. Mk. I, Stirling B. Mk. III, Su-8, Sunderland G.R. Mk. IIIa, Sunderland G.R. Mk. V, T 2, T 18B-2, TIS (MA), Tu-1, Tu-2, Tu-2 [CHN], Tu-2S-10, Tu-2S-44, Tu-2S-59, Tu-2Sz-59 [ITA], Tu-4, Tu-4 [CHN], Washington B. Mk. I, Wellington B. Mk. III, Wellington B. Mk. X, Wellington Mk. Ic, Wellington Mk. Ic (1941), Wellington Mk. Ic [DEU], Yer-2 (M-105) (MV-3), Yer-2 (M-105) (TAT-BT), Yer-2 (M-105R), Yer-2 (M-105R) (LU-MV-2B), Yer-2-3 (ACh-30B), Yer-2-4 (ACh-30B), Z.1007bis III, Z.1007bis V:
    • 2 mm fuel tank armour:
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 200 → 150%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel: 4 → 3 mm
    • A-20G-25, A-20G-25 [USSR], A-26B-15, A-26B-50, A-26C-45, A-26C-45 (17th Bomb Gp.), A-29, B 18A, B-10B, B-18A, B-25J-1, B-25J-20, B-25J-30 [CHN], B-25J-30 [USSR], B-25K (“SB-25J”), B-26B [JPN], B-26C-20, B-26C-20 [FRA], B-34, Be-6, Beaufort Mk. VIII, Blenheim Mk. IV, Bloch 174-A3, Bloch 175 T, Boston Mk. I, BR.20 DR, BR.20M M1, BV 138 C-1, Catalina Mk. IIIa, DB-3 [CHN], DB-3B, DB-7-B3, Do 17 Z-2, Do 17 Z-7, Do 217 E-2, Do 217 E-4, Do 217 J-1, Do 217 J-2, Do 217 K-1, Do 217 M-1, Do 217 N-1, G4M1, Hampden Mk. I, Hampden Mk. I [USSR], Hampden T.B. Mk. I, Havoc Mk. I, He 115 C-1, Hudson Mk. V, Il-4, Ki 21-I Hei, Ki 21-I Kō, Ki 48-II Otsu, Ki 49-I, Ki 49-II Kō, Ki 49-II Otsu, Ki 49-II Otsu (late), Ki 67 Kō, Ki 67 Otsu, Ki 109, LéO 451-BN4, LéO 451-BN4 (Sep 1940), Martin 139WC, Martin 167-A3, P1Y1, P1Y1 [CHN], PBJ-1H, PBJ-1J, PBM-1, PBM-3, PBY-5, PBY-5A, PBY-5A [USSR], Potez 630-C3, Potez 631-C3, Potez 633-B2, PV-2D, Qing 6, S-79B [DEU], S-79B [ITA], S.81, S.M.79 AS, S.M.79 AS [DEU], S.M.79 I, S.M.79 I [DEU], S.M.79 IV [DEU], S.M.79 VIII, S.M.79 VIII [DEU], S.M.79bis/N [DEU], S.M.79bis/T.M, S.M.79bis/T.M [DEU], Su-8, T 2, Tu-2, Tu-2 [CHN], Tu-2S-10, Tu-2S-44, Tu-2S-59, Tu-2Sz-59 [ITA], Wellington B. Mk. III, Wellington B. Mk. X, Wellington Mk. Ic, Wellington Mk. Ic (1941), Wellington Mk. Ic [DEU], Z.1007bis III, Z.1007bis V:
    • 2 mm duraluminium tail and stabiliser armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 150%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 75 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 25 → 1%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium fuselage armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 85 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 45 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium wing armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 90 → 57%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 15 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel: 4.3 → 4 mm
    • 1 mm duraluminium elevator, rudder, aileron, and flap armour:
      • explosion damage multiplier: 115 → 65%
    • Ar-2, B 18B, Do 17 E-1, F.222.2-BN5, He 111 H-3, He 111 H-6, He 111 H-16, He 177 A-3/R3, He 177 A-5/R3, Ju 88 A-1, Ju 88 A-4, Ju 88 A-4 [SWE], Ju 188 A-2, Ju 288 C, Ju 388 J, Lancaster B. Mk. VII (WU), N.C.223.3-BN5, P.108A II, PBM-5A, Pe-2-1, Pe-2-31, Pe-2-83, Pe-2-110, Pe-2-205, Pe-2-359, Pe-2-359, Pe-3-1, Pe-3-2, Pe-3bis, SB 2M-100, SB 2M-103, SB 2M-103 (MV-3), SB 2M-103U, SB 2M-103U (MV-3), SB 2M-105, SB-3 [CHN], T 18B-2, TIS (MA), Tu-1, Yer-2 (M-105) (MV-3), Yer-2 (M-105) (TAT-BT), Yer-2 (M-105R), Yer-2 (M-105R) (LU-MV-2B), Yer-2-3 (ACh-30B), Yer-2-4 (ACh-30B):
    • 2 mm duraluminium tail and stabiliser armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 150%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 75 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 25 → 1%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium fuselage armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 85 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 45 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium wing armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • kinetic damage multiplier: 40 → 5%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 90 → 57%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 15 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel: 4.3 → 4 mm
    • 1 mm duraluminium elevator, rudder, aileron, and flap armour:
      • explosion damage multiplier: 115 → 65%
  • B-17E (early), B-17E (late), B-17E [JPN], B-17G-60, B-17G-60 [ISR], B-24D-140, B-29A-20, Bloch 162-01, BV 238, Fw 200 C-1, G5N1, G8N1, H6K4, H8K2, H8K3, Halifax B. Mk. III, Lancaster Mk. I, Lancaster Mk. III, Lincoln B. Mk. 2, Me 264, P4Y-2 [CHN], P.108B I, P.108B II, PB4Y-2, PB4Y-2 [FRA], Pe-8, Shackleton M.R. Mk. 2, Stirling B. Mk. I, Stirling B. Mk. III, Sunderland G.R. Mk. IIIa, Sunderland G.R. Mk. V, Tu-4, Tu-4 [CHN], Washington B. Mk. I:
    • 2 mm duraluminium tail and stabiliser armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 150%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 75 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 25 → 1%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium fuselage armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 85 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 45 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 4 mm
    • 2 mm duraluminium wing and wing controls armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 250 → 50%
      • kinetic damage multiplier: 40 → 5%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 90 → 57%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 15 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel: 4.3 → 4 mm
    • 1 mm duraluminium elevator, rudder, aileron, and flap armour:
      • explosion damage multiplier: 115 → 65%
    • Ar 234 B-2, Ar 234 B-2 (W.B. 151), Ar 234 C-3, B-52H-140, B-57B, B-66B, Canberra B. Mk. 2, Canberra B. Mk. 2 (51-17352) (“B-57A”) [USA], Canberra B.(I.) Mk. 6, Il-28, Il-28 [CHN], Il-28 [DEU], Il-28 [ITA], Il-28Sh, Tu-14T, Tu-95M, Vautour A ([ISR]), Vautour A [ISR], Vautour II A, Vautour II B, Vautour II N (C), Vautour II N (M), Vautour N (C) [ISR], Yak-28B:
    • 4 mm fuel tank armour:
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 200 → 150%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel: 8 → 5 mm
    • 4 mm duraluminium tail armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 135 → 100%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 75 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 25 → 1%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 5 mm
    • 4 mm duraluminium fuselage armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 190 → 50%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 85 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 45 → 0.5%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 5 mm
    • 4 mm duraluminium wing armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 135 → 50%
      • kinetic damage multiplier: 40 → 5%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 90 → 57%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 15 → 0.5%
    • 4 mm duraluminium elevator, rudder, aileron, and flap armour:
      • explosion damage multiplier: 115 → 65%
    • 4 mm duraluminium stabiliser armour:
      • armour modifier against explosions: 200 → 150%
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 145 → 100%
      • explosion damage multiplier: 75 → 65%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 25 → 1%
      • max effective thickness against shrapnel is now capped at 5 mm
  • TB-3 4M-17:
    • 0.4 mm kol’chugaluminium wing armour:
      • kinetic damage multiplier: 40 → 5%
    • A-20G-25, A-20G-25 [USSR], A-26B-15, A-26B-50, A-26C-45, A-26C-45 (17th Bomb Gp.), A-29, Ar 234 B-2, Ar 234 B-2 (W.B. 151), Ar 234 C-3, Ar-2, B 18A, B 18B, B-10B, B-17E (early), B-17E (late), B-17E [JPN], B-17G-60, B-17G-60 [ISR], B-18A, B-24D-140, B-25J-1, B-25J-20, B-25J-30 [CHN], B-25J-30 [USSR], B-25K (“SB-25J”), B-26B [JPN], B-26C-20, B-26C-20 [FRA], B-29A-20, B-34, B-52H-140, B-57B, B-66B, Be-6, Beaufort Mk. VIII, Blenheim Mk. IV, Bloch 162-01, Bloch 174-A3, Bloch 175 T, Boston Mk. I, BR.20 DR, BR.20M M1, BV 138 C-1, BV 238, Canberra B. Mk. 2, Canberra B. Mk. 2 (51-17352) (“B-57A”) [USA], Canberra B.(I.) Mk. 6, Catalina Mk. IIIa, DB-3 [CHN], DB-3B, DB-7-B3, Do 17 E-1, Do 17 Z-2, Do 17 Z-7, Do 217 E-2, Do 217 E-4, Do 217 J-1, Do 217 J-2, Do 217 K-1, Do 217 M-1, Do 217 N-1, F.222.2-BN5, Fw 200 C-1, G4M1, G5N1, G8N1, H6K4, H8K2, H8K3, Halifax B. Mk. III, Hampden Mk. I, Hampden Mk. I [USSR], Hampden T.B. Mk. I, Havoc Mk. I, He 111 H-3, He 111 H-6, He 111 H-16, He 115 C-1, He 177 A-3/R3, He 177 A-5/R3, Hudson Mk. V, Il-4, Il-28, Il-28 [CHN], Il-28 [DEU], Il-28 [ITA], Il-28Sh, Ju 88 A-1, Ju 88 A-4, Ju 88 A-4 [SWE], Ju 188 A-2, Ju 288 C, Ju 388 J, Ki 21-I Hei, Ki 21-I Kō, Ki 48-II Otsu, Ki 49-I, Ki 49-II Kō, Ki 49-II Otsu, Ki 49-II Otsu (late), Ki 67 Kō, Ki 67 Otsu, Ki 109, Lancaster B. Mk. VII (WU), Lancaster Mk. I, Lancaster Mk. III, LéO 451-BN4, LéO 451-BN4 (Sep 1940), Lincoln B. Mk. 2, Martin 139WC, Martin 167-A3, Me 264, N.C.223.3-BN5, P1Y1, P1Y1 [CHN], P4Y-2 [CHN], P.108A II, P.108B I, P.108B II, PB4Y-2, PB4Y-2 [FRA], PBJ-1H, PBJ-1J, PBM-1, PBM-3, PBM-5A, PBY-5, PBY-5A, PBY-5A [USSR], Pe-2-1, Pe-2-31, Pe-2-83, Pe-2-110, Pe-2-205, Pe-2-359, Pe-2-359, Pe-3-1, Pe-3-2, Pe-3bis, Pe-8, Potez 630-C3, Potez 631-C3, Potez 633-B2, PV-2D, Qing 6, S-79B [DEU], S-79B [ITA], S.81, S.M.79 AS, S.M.79 AS [DEU], S.M.79 I, S.M.79 I [DEU], S.M.79 IV [DEU], S.M.79 VIII, S.M.79 VIII [DEU], S.M.79bis/N [DEU], S.M.79bis/T.M, S.M.79bis/T.M [DEU], SB 2M-100, SB 2M-103, SB 2M-103 (MV-3), SB 2M-103U, SB 2M-103U (MV-3), SB 2M-105, SB-3 [CHN], Shackleton M.R. Mk. 2, Stirling B. Mk. I, Stirling B. Mk. III, Su-8, Sunderland G.R. Mk. IIIa, Sunderland G.R. Mk. V, T 2, T 18B-2, TIS (MA), Tu-1, Tu-2, Tu-2 [CHN], Tu-2S-10, Tu-2S-44, Tu-2S-59, Tu-2Sz-59 [ITA], Tu-4, Tu-4 [CHN], Tu-14T, Tu-95M, Vautour A ([ISR]), Vautour A [ISR], Vautour II A, Vautour II B, Vautour II N (C), Vautour II N (M), Vautour N (C) [ISR], Washington B. Mk. I, Wellington B. Mk. III, Wellington B. Mk. X, Wellington Mk. Ic, Wellington Mk. Ic (1941), Wellington Mk. Ic [DEU], Yak-28B, Yer-2 (M-105) (MV-3), Yer-2 (M-105) (TAT-BT), Yer-2 (M-105R), Yer-2 (M-105R) (LU-MV-2B), Yer-2-3 (ACh-30B), Yer-2-4 (ACh-30B), Z.1007bis III, Z.1007bis V:
    • 30 mm spar armour:
      • armour modifier against shrapnel: 100 → 50%
      • shrapnel damage multiplier: 100 → 0.5%
      • kinetic damage multiplier: 100 → 30%
    • A-20G-25, A-20G-25 [USSR], A-26B-15, A-26B-50, A-26C-45, A-26C-45 (17th Bomb Gp.), A-29, Ar 234 B-2, Ar 234 B-2 (W.B. 151), Ar 234 C-3, Ar-2, B 18A, B 18B, B-10B, B-18A, B-25J-1, B-25J-20, B-25J-30 [CHN], B-25J-30 [USSR], B-25K (“SB-25J”), B-26B [JPN], B-26C-20, B-26C-20 [FRA], B-34, B-52H-140, B-57B, B-66B, Be-6, Beaufort Mk. VIII, Blenheim Mk. IV, Bloch 174-A3, Bloch 175 T, Boston Mk. I, BR.20 DR, BR.20M M1, BV 138 C-1, Canberra B. Mk. 2, Canberra B. Mk. 2 (51-17352) (“B-57A”) [USA], Canberra B.(I.) Mk. 6, Catalina Mk. IIIa, DB-3 [CHN], DB-3B, DB-7-B3, Do 17 E-1, Do 17 Z-2, Do 17 Z-7, Do 217 E-2, Do 217 E-4, Do 217 J-1, Do 217 J-2, Do 217 K-1, Do 217 M-1, Do 217 N-1, F.222.2-BN5, G4M1, Hampden Mk. I, Hampden Mk. I [USSR], Hampden T.B. Mk. I, Havoc Mk. I, He 111 H-3, He 111 H-6, He 111 H-16, He 115 C-1, He 177 A-3/R3, He 177 A-5/R3, Hudson Mk. V, Il-4, Il-28, Il-28 [CHN], Il-28 [DEU], Il-28 [ITA], Il-28Sh, Ju 88 A-1, Ju 88 A-4, Ju 88 A-4 [SWE], Ju 188 A-2, Ju 288 C, Ju 388 J, Ki 21-I Hei, Ki 21-I Kō, Ki 48-II Otsu, Ki 49-I, Ki 49-II Kō, Ki 49-II Otsu, Ki 49-II Otsu (late), Ki 67 Kō, Ki 67 Otsu, Ki 109, Lancaster B. Mk. VII (WU), LéO 451-BN4, LéO 451-BN4 (Sep 1940), Martin 139WC, Martin 167-A3, N.C.223.3-BN5, P1Y1, P1Y1 [CHN], P.108A II, PBJ-1H, PBJ-1J, PBM-1, PBM-3, PBM-5A, PBY-5, PBY-5A, PBY-5A [USSR], Pe-2-1, Pe-2-31, Pe-2-83, Pe-2-110, Pe-2-205, Pe-2-359, Pe-2-359, Pe-3-1, Pe-3-2, Pe-3bis, Potez 630-C3, Potez 631-C3, Potez 633-B2, PV-2D, Qing 6, S-79B [DEU], S-79B [ITA], S.81, S.M.79 AS, S.M.79 AS [DEU], S.M.79 I, S.M.79 I [DEU], S.M.79 IV [DEU], S.M.79 VIII, S.M.79 VIII [DEU], S.M.79bis/N [DEU], S.M.79bis/T.M, S.M.79bis/T.M [DEU], SB 2M-100, SB 2M-103, SB 2M-103 (MV-3), SB 2M-103U, SB 2M-103U (MV-3), SB 2M-105, SB-3 [CHN], Su-8, T 2, T 18B-1, T 18B-2, TB-3 4M-17, TIS (MA), Tu-1, Tu-2, Tu-2 [CHN], Tu-2S-10, Tu-2S-44, Tu-2S-59, Tu-2Sz-59 [ITA], Tu-14T, Tu-95M, Vautour A ([ISR]), Vautour A [ISR], Vautour II A, Vautour II B, Vautour II N (C), Vautour II N (M), Vautour N (C) [ISR], Wellington B. Mk. III, Wellington B. Mk. X, Wellington Mk. Ic, Wellington Mk. Ic (1941), Wellington Mk. Ic [DEU], Yak-28B, Yer-2 (M-105) (MV-3), Yer-2 (M-105) (TAT-BT), Yer-2 (M-105R), Yer-2 (M-105R) (LU-MV-2B), Yer-2-3 (ACh-30B), Yer-2-4 (ACh-30B), Z.1007bis III, Z.1007bis V:
    • fuselages, wings, tails, and stabilisers can now be damaged by explosions
    • mid and outer spars:
      • they can now be damaged by kinetic damage
      • it now takes 75-80% less damage to destroy them
    • fuel tanks can now be damaged by fire
  • B-17E (early), B-17E (late), B-17E [JPN], B-17G-60, B-17G-60 [ISR], B-24D-140, B-29A-20, Bloch 162-01, Fw 200 C-1, G5N1, G8N1, H6K4, H8K2, H8K3, Halifax B. Mk. III, Lancaster Mk. I, Lancaster Mk. III, Lincoln B. Mk. 2, Me 264, P4Y-2 [CHN], P.108B I, P.108B II, PB4Y-2, PB4Y-2 [FRA], Pe-8, Shackleton M.R. Mk. 2, Stirling B. Mk. I, Stirling B. Mk. III, Sunderland G.R. Mk. IIIa, Sunderland G.R. Mk. V, Tu-4, Tu-4 [CHN], Washington B. Mk. I:
    • fuselages, wings, wing controls, tails, and stabilisers can now be damaged by explosions
    • mid and outer spars:
      • they can now be damaged by kinetic damage
      • it now takes 75-80% less damage to destroy them
    • fuel tanks can now be damaged by fire

TLDR bombers are much less survivable to HE with recent changes

2 Likes

If I didn’t play the game, I might believe it.

So, do you play the game?

You are lying right to my face.

1 Like

they take a lot more damage now in a realistic way.

thankfully still not a one shot, gaijin hasnt bent the knee to skill-lacking fighter players.

1 Like

Just go for the cockpits, easy kill. Bombers have suffered for 10 years, and yet half of the fighter community is up in arms 20 days after the update lol.

8 Likes

Those are upcoming changes btw. So you couldn’t possibly have seen them on live.
https://gist.github.com/gszabi99/f7400a1c03a3dc86082d49a3ce1111cc#file-2-59-0-51_part_1-md
https://gist.github.com/gszabi99/9134f99ad7339ec63430b2b0797ee212#file-2-59-0-51_part_2-md

2 Likes

BVVD: Already stated this is being resolved. However, bombers are not becoming crackers again.

Based on performance, unfortunately. Also, those 3 vehicles are, relatively speaking, on par with one another; the year doesn’t matter.

Once again, you are basing this on the year of introduction, which means nothing. Also, the P-51C, aka Red Tails, is identical to the P-51B, and both were improvements of the P-51A. All 3 aren’t exactly amazing.

Going to ignore the rest of what’s written cause it’s nothing but "I want to fly this, but I’m fighting things that were produced years later; how am I supposed to win.

Which is narrowed down to: Experience lacking, and very clearly trying to force aircraft to do something it wasn’t designed to do and can do very sparingly.

2 Likes

I’ve carefully read your impressions, but it seems like the only thing you’re talking about is wanting to win in dogfights.

Except for the lightweight E models, the entire Bf 109 series were aircraft recommended for BOOM AND ZOOM tactics. In particular, please don’t dogfight Spitfires.
You’re just that bad at it.

That said, I have to admit that the P-51C’s BR is too low. When flown by someone who knows how to handle it properly, the Bf 109 simply doesn’t stand a chance.

6 Likes

thats like trying to get an untrained dog to leave the slice of bacon dropped on the floor alone.

image

11 Likes

this i must agree with. Mustangs are frankly absurd for their BRs, especially the allison powered ones in the US tree (apache and Esports A variant). They could quite easily be a whole BR higher and still be strong. .50 cals even with the worse belts compared the later packard mustangs belts still absolutely shred targets too, they are overperforming badly ngl

1 Like

I know, I don’t expect everything to be historical but especially for ground historical rounds would actually make something like an M4A3 76W against a Tiger 2 relatively fair, the 76 can pen the Tiger mantlet, and it has the mobility to flank, but a skilled Tiger player would sit back and snipe because the Kwk 44 is better at range.

In this game - the best plane for germany is a nerfed trophy Typhoon (premium). That is very funny.
The soviet piece of flying debree named as Yak performing as it does - is a crime though.

2 Likes

A-36 should be whatever BR P-51A is, and P-51A is 3.3 material

1 Like

It’s a field day for the auto-aimers.

You are lying right to our faces.

There are players who unload MK 108 rounds onto an enemy plane in-game without managing to bring it down.

It bears absolutely no resemblance to historical reality.

Normally, when 3 or 4 MK 108 rounds hit a vital spot, the impact is far more devastating—especially when the plane’s own speed is factored into the force of the explosions.

Gaijin has effectively trapped itself with the photos it published. Just imagine the damage those rounds—which cause significant destruction even against a stationary aircraft—would inflict on a plane in motion; the damage potential would increase exponentially.

You really ought to be discussing how 12.7mm or 13mm rounds are somehow more effective than 20mm cannons.

If that level of durability exists, then fighter aircraft should be just as tough.

I used to complain about bombers being too fragile myself, but they’ve really gone overboard with this update.

Also, let’s be clear: the game doesn’t revolve solely around you. Players who share your opinion make up less than 1% of the player base.

The game has already turned into a cycle of Battle Passes and “Vehicle of the Month” events; it has become heavily commercialized.

My request to Gaijin is this: sure, you’re a commercial enterprise and you’re going to fleece players like geese by adding new vehicles, but please address the imbalances in question as well.

1 Like

I was going to touch upon the A-36, but I couldn’t be bothered to do so.

Yes, that plane entered service in 1943.

Yet, we face it with—almost as a joke—Fw 190s or the Bf 109 E-3/E-4 series.

Similarly, the Fw 190 D-9 has a high BR; it entered service in the same era as the Bf 109 G-10. It should be 5.3.

Folks, don’t take those who defend bombers here seriously. They represent a mere 1% minority.

I mean, the game gives the impression that these planes take off from London, bomb the Ruhr region, and return.

The damage models were designed with that in mind. Look, these bombers bomb their targets and return within ten minutes at most—so why are you adjusting them the way I described earlier?

At this rate, bombers might as well just play amongst themselves. Even the bases can’t destroy the planes—we fly right over them—yet when you fly a fighter, your plane explodes instantly.

Look, I’ll say it again: making bombers more durable is a good thing, but the fact that MK 108 explosive rounds fail to damage aluminum is simply mocking the player base.

You should have prioritized durability against 12.7mm and 13mm rounds, not against 20mm or 30mm cannons.

Frankly, I expect an adjustment soon.

Bombers are like the Nebuchadnezzar hovercraft from The Matrix—or the Death Star.

*Yes, the changes regarding bombers have arrived. We’ll see the results.

Now we can get back to our main topic.

Hmmmm???
What the hell are you even trying to say?

Just when I thought you were complaining about not being able to win dogfights in the Bf 109, now you’re starting to claim that the Mk 108 doesn’t work on planes. And now it’s about bombers???🫨
I’ll post a video just in case, but the Mk 108 deals pretty consistent damage to anything that isn’t a bomber.✌🥴🤚
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You are lying.

Their performance is by no means equal.

The P-51 C-10 is faster and more agile than the Bf 109 F-4; it has an incredible turn rate at high speeds and more durable wings at high speeds. In skilled hands, they give us a really hard time.

As for parity, the best match-up I’ve seen is between the K-4 and the D-30. Some Soviet models could be included as well.

You are deliberately steering the conversation off-track.

So, are you implying that the newer models have lower speed and agility?

Are you saying the standard P-51 and the D-30 have the same level of speed, climb rate, and agility?

That 1% minority and their nonsense.

Friends who share my view, please support this topic; it is time for this nonsense to change.

Of course, what I am talking about applies to Simulator Battles.

1 Like

You probably didn’t fully read what I wrote—or perhaps you didn’t understand it.

I pointed out that the MK 108 round is ineffective against bombers, not against fighters or strike aircraft.

It has arrived in the new patch; I’ll share my findings once I’ve tested it.

Let’s drop the bomber topic.

Instead, let’s discuss the persistent addition of aircraft that are superior in every respect to their counterparts—yet are assigned lower Battle Ratings (BR).

1 Like

??? I just said the P-51A/A-36 needs nerfing and you start going off about MK108s

anyways BR is not made by when they were introduced irl and that is a good thing