Frankly I’m beyond the idea of this specific bug report. I haven’t read the whole report myself. The point I’m making is gaijin is being needlessly obtuse about this whole situation, and this isn’t even something WE as the community should have to be doing. Again returning to my original point, their current methods and expectations are unrealistic to what is actually possible and need to change. Also as an aside, do you yourself think IRL the Abrams never received any form of upgraded LFP armor?
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I’m not trying to “whataboutism”, I’m trying to understand separate points from you. All of what I’m saying is just trying to find reasoning for why Gaijin might reject it. All of my points extend from the same one, “do we know where weight went” or “where it came from”. As far as the estimations go, as I understand it, it just states “this is the weight increase of the hull” then assumes it is all LFP DU (or substituted w/ RHA)
Also I haven’t once denied any of your points directly. I never said you are wrong, I’ve conceded to certain points (LFP being tested w/ weights, no increase in underbody for IED prot., etc.)
I assume it did lol, doesn’t mean I’m going to say it did when I don’t know if it did, and I’m not going to say it didn’t when I don’t know if it didn’t.
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Reading implies comprehension. if someone reads something and managed to miss important information, sounds more like skimming then actual reading.
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Just found this where NEA is denoted into armor improvements and the IED kit https://blastinjuryresearch.health.mil/assets/docs/injury_prevention/fy16/vehicles/Enhanced_Underbody_Crew_Protection.pdf
Rej. Ground 1 is all about the dummy plates, but I can’t access one of the links and I don’t think it specified the LFP in the report. It is possible to read something and miss it though, and I admit that. If it is there and I missed it, fine I made a mistake and thats my bad.
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I can’t be bothered to write a bug report myself but here’s some more stuff for y’all:
Details of Polish FMS purchase stating armor is removable subassemblies (so not just more RHA somewhere)
And also, M1A2 turret weight is 26.9 US tons or 24.40 tons:
Subtract 24.40 tons from total weight of 62.05 tons (from here) and you get a hull weight of 37.65 tons
M1A2 SEPv3 turret weighs 31.5 tons US tons or 28.57 tons:
Subtract 28.57 tons from total weight of 66.77 tons (from here) and you get a hull weight of 38.2 tons. That gives you 38.2 tons - 37.65 tons for 0.55 tons in increase hull weight. Now, factor in the APU at 0.19 tons weight gain(from here) and then the titanium NBC door at 0.04 weight savings), you get 400kgs of difference in hull weight that is due to armor.
and that’s likely a large underestimation. The APU is not just purely added weight as the space it sits was not empty before. Some the og M1A2’s and early SEPs had the UAAPU there and on later SEPs and SEPv2’s, that space was filled with Hawker batteries. The M1A2 ingame model at the 62 ton weight actually has the UAAPU modeled and the UAAPU weighed 0.23 metric tons, more than the SEPv3 APU! (from here). So in actuality, the total increase in weight due to armor is 630 kgs.
((38.2 + 0.04 (titanium weight savings) + (0.23-0.19) (old vs new APU weights)) - 37.65 = 0.63 tons
The other elephant in the room is claiming the NEA or the weight is underbelly or IED protection. Again, not the case. See here:
In addition to armor protection upgrades to the Abrams Tank, the Next Evolution Armor (NEA) development effort also addressed both weight reduction and crew protection improvements for under-body blast (UBB).
So clearly armor protection upgrades under NEA are not the same as UBB and, most importantly, the UBB changes resulted in weight reduction, not gain! So again, the estimate of between 400-630 kgs being added to hull armor is likely an underestimation.
Of note, I did not include things like CROWs, radios, etc in this weight comparison as those are components of the turret and not the hull. Subtracting the turret weights out (based on their data plates) accounts for all that. And when it comes to the hull, the differences are far more minimal. If anything, updated wiring and LRUs reduces weight due to modern wiring rather than increase it. And the vast majority of wiring and LRUs are in the turret as opposed to the hull.
So if anyone wants to make a report be my guest. IDK what else to say.
For titanium weight reductions:
Spoiler
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I would assume those weight plates are either RHA or lead. Provided you could get rough measurements, you could calculate their weight in reference to added armor.
If there’s images of it, couldn’t you use pixels and the Abrams as reference to get a size for those plates then use that as reasoning for LFP upgrades? That’d be pretty sweet, no?
Should we report this false claim as “misinformation”?
Because that’s exactly what it is.
This also tells us what they plan to say on the Abrams Dev Blog next week: “we believe that all of the extra tons from SEPv2 to SEPv3 went into what we modelled as two 90mm thick plates on the cheeks”:
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Watch out, or they might ban you from the forums
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If you’d like you could join us in our research.
Having a M1 crew member with data can help.
As for the Titanium as far as our sources say, the Gunner Sight (some part of it) and the blowout panels only have titanium
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I believe Smin is already looking into it (and the report as a whole) as someone mentioned earlier iirc
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Already did :)
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The reason gaijin is rejecting it is because they’ve already made up their minds on whether it is getting it or not. EVERY single piece of publicly available information states that it is upgraded, no matter if it is from the government, pictures or just common sense. There is no reasoning for it, unless they want classified information that state the exact numbers. The problem is just that they have different standards for different nations, e.g the recent relikt buff which came out of nowhere.
This is the commentary I added; the grammar is mediocre, unlike most of my writing… but, truth to be said, I rushed in anger and did not even bother to perfect it, so it’s raw, hahah.
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Did anyone ever comment on that Relikt buff? I think people were looking for their source on it and couldn’t find it.
Mods got bored and changed it just cause.
Honestly, I personally don’t mind it if Gaijin guesstimates and buffs Relikt…
What really grinds my gears is that they are willing to do that with Relikt, but NOT with SEPv3’s hull…
It’s the double standard, basically. “Guesstimate buffs for me, but not for thee.”
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