Bombers really need to reworked. Its a shame so many historically important planes are do neglected…
12 Likes
Maybe an idea would be to restore the old rewards for bombers and attackers, while leaving the current system with reduced scoring for fighter planes. But these must be lower than score for a kill. In every game mode, AB, RB and SB.
1 Like
One of the main things we need is a gunner rework. Not just for aircraft, but a rework and unification of the aircraft, ship, and tank gunner systems.
-
Gunners should not open fire without prompting from the player (unlike current air/ships)
-
Gunners should fire on targets assigned by the player (system already in place with ships)
-
Gunners should open fire at far enough range to be a deterrent, but with poor-ish accuracy at range (like vs-ship ship gunners, thus a notable buff to air gunners, but a nerf to vs-air ship gunners)
-
Tank secondary AA guns (roof .50s, etc) should be included in the same system
This would simultaniously fix a whole pile of issues. Aircraft gunners would actually be more than worthless but require the player actually paying attention and manual action, ship gunners would similarly require paying attention and action instead of nuking every aircraft / PT boat without even knowing they exist, and tanks gain a tool against CAS. And it’s all unified as a consistent system.
6 Likes
Remove airspawn form every plain that it’s not a bomber, strike aircrafts and interceptors having such huge advantage is stupid thing, easily climbing and killing bombers with ease, not to mention that strike aircrafts can drop bombs stealing bases from bombers rendering them useless or just damaging the base and stealing the main rewards of destroying bases from bombers, remove the airspawn and adjust BR for these aircraft that will no longer have it.
4 Likes
AI-wingman?
Yes, please.
Especially for naval battles, where brave souls on planes, forced to fight with floating flakturms, in meaning of AAA numbers.
(Dont forget about HE-PF)
12 Likes
To add to this, here are my suggestions:
-
Make AI gunners useful - On an Aced crew they should be firing at 1.0-1.2km, with Expert 0.8-1.0km, then 0.7-0.8km without Expert. They should also be fairly accurate, due to the general firepower disadvantage bombers have (most bombers can only point at most half of their MGs towards any target, of which the total amount of MGs are usually at most half of the firepower of a fighter).
-
Decrease bomber BRs across the board - Imo, there should be no prop bomber above 6.3 - maybe 6.7. Put the Tu-4 at 6.3, B-29 at 6.0, and move downwards. This will of course require adjustments to the base HP. The jet bombers should also be moved down, especially the ones with little to no countermeasures; the main things that will have to be worked around are the prop-to-jet transition BRs, or putting certain types of missiles too low.
-
Make bombers tankier, they shouldn’t be paper - This applies to every bomber, especially the bigger and slower ones. Short of a 40mm+ cannon, one shots should not happen under any circumstances - and for most types of MGs/cannons multiple passes should be required to take them down.
-
Increase bomber spawn altitude - The current spawn altitude is just far too low, virtually every nation in the game at all BRs have fighters or interceptors that can outclimb bombers. Imo, 5-6km should be the minimum spawn altitude for most BRs.
-
Fix MG bullet spread/ammo and targeting inconsistencies - Generally the bullet spread for bombers is massively larger than for fighters, and this just shouldn’t be the case. Additionally, some bombers don’t have access to their historical ammo belts (iirc), which also makes their defensive/offensive capabilities worse than necessary. Additionally, add the MG targeting system to the B-29.
-
Increase the rewards for attack aircraft/fighters hitting ground targets, but massively decrease rewards for them hitting bases - This will generally just stop attack aircraft/fighters from taking bases at all BRs.
-
Move the jet bomber/attack aircraft spawn be much closer to bases and ground targets than the fighter spawn - No fighter should be getting to a base before a bomber, even a supersonic fighter against a subsonic bomber.
Responses to other people within the thread:
The AI gunners should most definitely fire on their own, and the accuracy of the plane gunners should be made to be as accurate as the AA guns in Naval, tbh. Their accuracy should also be good, to the point where fighters would be 100% shot down without dodging.
15 Likes
Yes
Requires going to location for reference photographs, or the purchase of reference photographs to use for commercial purposes.
On top of that the labor cost required.
Are due to CPU cycle limitations for compatibility with as many computers as possible.
You mean Gaijin is cracking down on bots:
No, not only would the AI overhaul need to include that functionality, but it’d delay the AI overhaul for no real gains when there are vastly superior options one of which is playing sim…
I agree that reward buffs across the board might be necessary.
It’s just your post doesn’t do much to address the problems present let alone the ones your post mentioned.
LOL! No you don’t. Old systems for bombers were far worse.
I don’t know when we got our current system for bombers prior to 2018, but when I played bombers in 2015 the rewards weren’t better.
AI overhaul they’re working on hopefully includes this.
This one I disagree with as a bomber player.
All aircraft need damage model buffs. It’s not 2021 anymore after all. If any feature should consume more CPU cycles it’s improved damage models.
There’s a lot more planes it could be added to. The P-61C, A-26, any US plane with that flat-pack style turret. On top of that there’s several British and US bombers that had dedicated radar gunsights in the tail turret.
But overall I agree with you on the need for a massive change. There’s a reason the Germans wound up resorting to sticking Nebelwerfer rockets on the Me 262 in an attempt to engage outside of a bomber’s effective range.
4 Likes
How about B-29’s BR?
I don’t like your solution, and only because I think “high risk high reward” is playing bomber in and of itself PLUS the fact that I have proposed an idea about how we go about bomber.
That is, create a “target zone” where an entire plane bombload is not enough, you and the other bomber in the team need to bomb that spot so you all can benefit from the reward altogether. Instead of putting 4 individual target, you’re better off putting 2 “target zone” that require 2-4 plane bombload for each zone.
2 Likes
That would be cool
I’ve made similar suggestion to dev, it got passed IIRC?
Just check my profile.
bombers are just cannon fodder. Always have been in war thunder.
Nah, I remember the early days where a B-17’s gunners could eradicate any fighter that came close
A bomber rework would be lovely. I personally enjoy flying bombers and I want more bombers in-game especially cold war ones but atm bomber meta is shite ngl.
5 Likes
Valid for prop Air RB:
After reading this thread i am not sure if most of the posters have realized that you try to find workarounds for a situation which is fully intended by gaijin.
Just a short reminder:
-
You decided to play a vehicle based shooter (PvP) - which is dominated by kids in fighters playing a pew-pew game - and want to increase the chances of a vehicle class which is designed to be a PvE plane.
-
On top of that - gaijin made classic bomber game play useless in May 2020 (introduction of respawning bases) and reduced it to a plain grinding tool.
-
Every “buff” of bombers would “hurt” the average fighter pilot - this won’t happen as the “outcry” of fighter players would be way louder than the “Yipee” of the few really experienced bomber pilots still playing the game.
A short feedback regarding the proposals / suggestions i saw:
-
Some of them make sense (like higher spawn alt) others were discussed in countless other threads (like ai gunners) but if you watched the development of prop Air RB in the last 3-5 years: There was not a single measure by gaijin which was in favor or bombers; all i saw were countless open and hidden nerfs.
-
Imho the only way to change anything for the better is to change game mechanics & rewards so that bombers can actually contribute to the team effort (=base kills need a higher ticket impact, destructible main airfield) and to make it worth (=rewards) to defend own bombers.
-
So changing their role from being dead weight to a valuable part of your team.
-
Last but not least: Too many bomber players have way too low ambitions to become good at the game - they are happy if they make it to a base no matter what comes after the drop, and if they got killed: Next match = pure selfish grinding.
7 Likes
I have said this before but look at the difference between the map you do the Test flight over and the map you actually play the game on.
Take Stalingrad,the Destructible Bridges,Trains,Boats. Imagine attacking the factories and airfields there.Same with the Pearl Harbour type scenario,bombing ships and oil tankers etc.
That is an air game I would play not bombing a couple of discs ,many of which are gone by the time you got there leaving you with a wasted game and wasted time.
It seems like Gaijin never could weave a good game into the PVP scenario when it comes to air battles.
4 Likes
A few weeks ago, I was flying my B-29 (personal favourite WW2 bomber), and there were 3 other B-29 players on our team. All of us were spread out over a large distance, as high as possible and on our ways to our respected bombing bases.
An enemy MiG-15 effortlessly reached above our altitudes, killed all of them one by one, eventually I was the final one (nearest bomber to me was 15km away), almost at my base, I knew he was coming.
I eventually managed to dzmage his engine a bit with my tail gunner, but 1.5km behind me he quivkly cut off my tail in one small burst.
Noone reached their targets, because of one MiG-15.
15 Likes
Now I wanna do a B-29 formation. This sounds like something that would have happened over Korea during the war.
3 Likes