The Rafale should get the ability to fire AASM missiles at radar emissions

DISCLAIMER:

Spoiler

Previously @Morvran had made a new dev-server thread topic where he had asked for Brimstones to receive mode 2 and received an answer that had explained that the new MITL mechanic was not connected to the type of targeting that Brimstones feature along with an explanation as to why their performance would be a concern. You can find the comment here:

Mode 2 Brimstones - #3

The purpose of this thread is not to equate AASM-IR’s feature or Rafale’s ability to target radar emissions through target point with the new MITL mechanism, but to stress that the Rafale needs these new mechanics.

The new major update patch adds several new mechanisms into the game including but not limited to:

  • The ability to launch anti-radiation missiles beyond 100km+
  • The ability to detect SPAA with anti-radiation missiles and obtain their general location.

These new mechanisms are applicable to many aircraft but as it is now, Rafale and Gripen E remain the only rank 9 aircraft that lack the capability to locate and fire at enemy radar emissions.

What is the solution in the case of the Rafale? The Rafale should have the capability modeled to create a sensor point-of-interest (target point) based off of enemy radar signals. A report had been made regarding this and it can be found here: Rafale’s RWR should be able to create sensor point-of-interest // Gaijin.net // Issues

The Rafale had demonstrated this capability in combat where it had fired and destroyed several SAM sites in Libya using the Spectra and AASM.

Spoiler

CombatAircraftPage

Quoting Smin, here are the three main concerns that were had with Brimstone :

  • Missiles are launched in an area and home in on any target within that area, including allies. Target acquisition occurs over a large area. Brimstone cannot discriminate in many cases and can destroy allies.

  • There are significant gaps in the ability to evade these missiles. Regular smoke screens don’t provide coverage from its radar. Only some specific smoke screens with chaff reflectors, but they’re experimental and very limited.

  • We have a “sterile” jamming environment; objects on the map that would actually disrupt lock-on have no effect on the radar seekers of missiles.

Original post: Mode 2 Brimstones - #3

However, with the Rafale’s ability to create GPS coordinates with enemy radar emissions, it would be able to send AASM-IR or AASM-GPS bombs at specific enemy locations limiting allied casualties. The AASM-GPS bomb can be evaded by simply moving from the location that was fired on, and unlike Brimstone the AASM-IR can be defeated by smoke screens. The Rafale is also limited in the amount of missiles it can carry compared to Brimstones with just 6 compared to 18.

With all of these factors in mind, it makes most sense that Gaijin adds this ability to the Rafale and other vehicles that had this capability as well.

Should Gaijin add this capability to the Rafale and other aircraft that have similar capabilities?

  • Yes
  • No
0 voters
13 Likes

It’s pretty nonsense not to implement it, but I’d wager we won’t see it because minor nation + vaguely complex.

5 Likes

Would also be nice to get BDA (Battle Damage Assessment) mode for all weapons that supported it. (Pilot can see a live video feed of the missile/bomb but not control it)

1 Like

Well, interestingly major nations such as the US have somewhat similar capability but it requires a late HARM so that means lugging around an equipment on US jets besides the F-15EX which has the same capability on their EPAWSS.

I suspect Gripen E has the same capability too, but I can’t find the evidence.

If you want to see it in game, you better hope Gripen doesn’t have it lol

Poor Gripen. Hated by devs for being triangle.

2 Likes

Navy jets have it pretty built in iirc. F-4G also has some of it built in for HARM and F-16’s HTS pod just goes on a TGP station so its not that big of a deal

I don’t believe any of them do in terms of geolocation capabilities, my reading has been that the F-22 was the first aircraft in US service to have this feature, then F-35s, and then F-15EX in terms of having this capability without needing another pod.

RIP Gripen E.

1 Like

the F-4G could do it, it was the first or one of the first

so could the EA-6B.

USN jets also have been much more integrated with the HARM from the start since USN is very involved in the HARM’s development and can use all of its modes while F-16’s need ASQ-123 pods

Basic ELINT functionality should be able to ID the general area to employ a weapon, so not too surprising if the ELINT phantom was able to find the emission source position. Would be curious as to its ability to give a GPS position to the weapon, as compared to relative bearing and range from the aircraft.

I couldn’t find anything legitimate on a quick search for the F-4G. I did find primary sources showing that the EA-6B had received this capability (geolocation specifically) with the ICAP III upgrade, but still nothing for F-4G in terms of primary or even secondary sources.

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Yeah, the specific capability is geolocation/GPS compared to bearing/angle which functions more like line-of-sight type of thing.

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It seems that the F-4G may have been retired before it could even get geolocation capabilities as the US started rolling out geolocation capabilities to aircraft starting in the early 2000’s and the F-4G was retired in the 90’s.

Was suspecting this.

https://wildweasels.org/f-4g-3/

this isnt a primary source but the guy very clearly says ranging capability

I don’t doubt that it has bearing/range capability but that’s far from geolocation. For example, the mechanical Eurofighters in-game has this same capability of bearing/range measurements IRL which they’d be able to fire at and do things with in a line-of-sight type of function.

But the Praetorian eVo that will be equipped on future Eurofighters will come with geolocation capabilities. OUTPACING THE THREAT | Eurofighter Typhoon

There’s a reason why the F-35, F-22, EA-6B, and F-15EX has specific terminology of “geolocation”.

LORAN was available from the F-4D onwards, it’s basically GPS but instead of satellites it uses ground stations.

“very rapid and accurate ranging capability” also works

a RAND report on the APR-38 (APR-47 is the successor to APR-38 on F-4G) specifically describes automatic and accurate ranging as one of the most difficult things they had to get right in the 70’s when they were developing it.

wasnt this just for navigation though?

It was for updating the INS, which when combined with bearing & range (or multiple bearings) geolocates a position of interest

1 Like

are there any good sources for the F-4G having geolocation capability since it could get range and bearing?