it would make sense that r-77m is 4.06m, as that’s the same length as rvv-bd/r-37m.
They removed the grid fins since the folding grid fins they wanted to do didn’t work out and added complexity they didn’t wanted
So in order to make the r-77 fit into the internal weapons bay of the su-57 they switched to normal fins
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The primary advantage of grid fins is literally packing for internal weapon bay storage. Its likely the reason they were picked in the first place as the missile was being developed for use in internal bays of next gen fighters at the time of their development.
Grid fins just arent good for AAM’s.
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R-77-1 is still in full production and available for export, planar fins offer stealth advantages but you have been so insulted over losing that argument all the time that you felt the need to put that little jab in after the person you “blocked” said something👍
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I wonder if gaijin will piss entire US playerbase by adding R-77M to Su-35S, or they will limit it to just having R-77-1 without even giving R-37M
This one is looks more logical Su-30SM just need better engines
R-77m is a completely unknown missile, its still in testing and its a relatively new program, what it hopes to achieve is parity with aim120d, id say thats pretty unlikely to come to the game.
If the trends continue like the aim120c5 then R-77-1 will be enough for a long while as its still pound for pound the best missile in the game, now if the aim120 bugfixes actually come in and make it competitive its going to be more equal but rn R-77-1 on a faster airframe is more than enough.
base model R-77 is also still sold and for production, that says little of value about the capability of said system.
this is the Astra mk1 from India, a country which operates r-77 and is trying to replace it with indigenous designs.
here you can see PL12AE and PL15e, respectively the export versions of PL12A and PL15, now these are the modernized variant of china’s first indigenous fox 3 and its bigger brother, im missing a closeup of PL-17 so thats missing, now china used (and still has inventory) of export R-77s, knowing china they’d have reverse engineered the shit out of em.
now do you happen to see whats missing in both of these pictures?
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The base R-77 was never sold or exported, RVV-AE is available for export but it is also upgraded from base R-77 and is used for legacy equipment that does not include the modern Su-35 and Su-57 variants that are currently for export. They still offer RVV-SD and R-77-1 for those newer airframes and will continue to do so.
Right next to the PL-12 you can see a traditional AIM-9 tail and above it a modernized tail control AAM, China’s developments not including grid fins speaks nothing to the capability of missiles that do utilize them. The focus for China is range and stealth, India’s design is worse than the R-77-1 as far as I am concerned.
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i think we will get r77m along with aim120D/pl15/mica ng and maybe meteor/r37m.
this is a pretty terrible arguement. the base model R-77 might as well have been nonexistant operationally we know what we actually mean when referring to it as such.
thats completely to be seen theyre both unconventional designs, but astra mk1 if it works as advertised should be an equal purely going on stats(real life isnt a game its to be seen how the fin layout pans out and how the tech actually works) but i wouldnt say anything yet, and the track record for r-77-1 specifically is far from stellar, still better than a early design undergoing testing i should add(despite what india seems to claim)
r77m is unlikely, they claim to achieve parity with aim120d, but then say they want “dual pulse and aesa seeker” which would squarely be pl15-pl17 territory.
This is true, but Gaijin has a history of doing such things. For example Fakour 90 and Seijil don’t have a lot of information about how they work, and yet we have them in-game. Or completely made up F-16AJ that was just a guesstimate on how this thing would be if Japan actually bought it. Or Yak-141, or… you get the picture.
fakour 90 shouldnt even be ingame imo, sedjil tho? its literally just a HAWK missile its fine, i agree with f16aj should be removed
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Just an issue with the logic, China got PL12 before R77 cause Russians didn’t give them any until much later.
thats a pl12A, much like r77m does they couldve “modernized” to use lattice fins if they were as good as some people here are trying to paint them as, not to mention, pl15 and pl17
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well obviously china didn’t need as much pull as R-77, since grid fins’ main advantage is low fin aoa to missile aoa, but partially China wanted to follow american examples and partially China envisualised AA combat to be a lot more BVR heavy.
They did change the aerodynamics of PL12A slightly but not much overall.
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probably because everyone realized 99 percent of air to air combat is bvr and not wvr, so why go grid fins?
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