The Pantsir SM-SV is Simply Too Strong, Russian Bias as Clear as Day

the difference is that u can modify ur tank’s reload with a human loader, u can’t with an autoloader and u’re forced to repair it if damaged to work properly, u don’t need a loader in an Abrams to reload, but u do in a tank with autoloader, that’s the difference.

the fact that WT takes away realism when talking about reloads is very funny cuz irl a loader wouldn’t be able of reloading Leopard’s cannon while moving at 58km/h, just like an autoloader would be able of reloading extremely slowly when critically hit.

To which, fundamentally makes an autoloader-based tank better? You can only get one crewman of replacement. Get two crewmen after replacing one and you’re permanently stuck on +10s reload, while technically you can still repair anytime your autoloader as long as you have crew available or you don’t get ammoracked, which is already hard if you go below 14 shells.

i would prefer to be stuck with +10secs reload in a better tank than stuck forever with a 7secs reload in a tank with bad mobility and fancy armor.

it’s rare to lose just the loader in a NATO MBT, u rather lose both gunner and commander/loader/or all 3 of them die.

If they want to buff NATO tanks, they should buff their repair speeds or nerf 3 crew tank ones, since that’s also an advantage of tanks with loaders and 4 crew

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i agree

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So what this boils down to is the thing that I’ve already addressed

The new Pantsir is problematic.

Again, I’m not defending the addition of the Pantsir, but we will have to accept that the counter against a Pantsir is using a tank.

We probably can go back and forth forever about how we think the CAS v SPAA dynamic should look like, but at the end of the day the main counter against SPAA always will be a ground vehicle, even when CAS has the upper hand.

So, now that the new Pantsir is here the proper next step should be to give other nations anti air vehicles that are similarly effective at intercepting incoming A2G ordnance and not to just buff CAS again. Just nerfing the Pantsir sadly is something that Gaijin just isn’t willing to do.

All that buffing CAS will achieve is making the ground gameplay even more miserable and I am amazed that people still haven’t learned that the way CAS has been “balanced” in recent times never leads to improvements for the actual ground battle experience.

Giving CAS more tools to either overwhelm or to specifically counter anti air should only be done once there is an acceptable level of balance between all nations in terms of anti air.
Otherwise you just end up making the situation for teams without a Pantsir worse.

Ideally a battle should be decided by whose side plays better on the ground (that includes destroying anti air using tanks and sometimes resisting the urge to spawn CAS)

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Crazy idea, but have you thought about just spawning in another tank instead of jumping into a heli when you are aware that there might be a Pantsir?

Then they should reduce CAS cost if they take steps to reduce its role. Air support has been important in every era in war thunder

That would literally turn GRB into ARB

Agreed

Then it’s not balanced and need to be nerfed, or better yet, removed since it had no reason to be added.

Agreed, and this should be uniform. Remove the KH-38MT, or at least limit it to attackers. Power creep won’t be solved by adding SPAA but instead by limiting the role of air-based combat entirely. IMO CAS was balanced before this update, save for the copious amount of KH38s which has only gotten worse since the update.

I disagree. It should be removed. There also exists no NATO counterpart unless we have a stationary platform like a C-RAM, which would be way too broken. Patriots could be added too but that would fall into the long range category.

Which was before the update.

CAS should be high value but also have a high reward/impact, not hard countered by AA at a fraction of the SP cost

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Again, the German flakrackpz thing that was the previous top spaa did the same thing.

Funny it’s only a problem when Russians can do it.

In all seriousness they need to add spaa between the helipads, dependent on br of course

I agree that the new Pantsir should be removed, but as much as we all would like that to happen, Gaijin won’t do so. Same goes for the Kh-38. Gaijin won’t nerf them either, because they just refuse to implement ahistorical changes for the sake of game balance.

There are counterparts that the blufor could get, the Skyranger, the HVSD/ADAMS and the MLBPWS, latter two literally being mobile Phalanx CIWS

The JAGMs, LMURs and whatever the Chinese FnF ATGMs are called were the problem, the new Pantsir is the result of that problem.

Before the FnF heli spam I would agree that the CAS v AA dynamic was as close to being properly balanced as it probably could ever be.

I think adding the AGM-88E and/or G would be a suitable counter to really modern SPAA like what most nations have

Yeah, I forgot about helis. I see them very rarely. Instead of fixing AGM-179 lofting, we should break LMUR lofting (the very thing that makes them effective). That would be a nerf to keep FnF helis relavant without making them OP. That and hardcapping all FnF munitions to 4.

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CAS should have a high impact, but it shouldn’t be braindead.

Anti air needs to be good at dealing with CAS, but it also has to be much cheaper than CAS (at least the ones that lack the ability to deal meaningful damage to tanks) because each anti air is a player that can’t do much except for waiting for a plane or heli to appear and maybe doing a bit of scouting

The stuff you say about how they shouldnt add better CAS also goes the other way, most countries don’t have stuff to deal with the new Pantsir

That’s the attitude that leads to additions like the new Pantsir.

2 straight garbage takes. Artificially nerfing stuff like that and limiting the number of FnF missiles, which is the whole point of these attack helis, is not good

Theyre broken as is. Can’t move em up anymore. Nerf or remove em.

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