In DCS you can saturate it because the radar isn’t magic and doesn’t detect HARMs at its absolute maximum range nor are the missiles perfect nor does the system have an instantaneous engagement cycle nor does it use the power of magic to not set off RWRs even when it’s well within the detectable bands nor does it have an ammo crate that magically replenishes its entire ordinance load. Often one HARM salvo is enough to completely take out a pantsir. Nobody reasonable has been complaining about the addition of the pantsir nor the tor-m2 (the real threat is still finding out there’s an S-300 in the area…). I have no clue where you got the idea people think it’s overpowered there. In many of the less serious servers pantsirs have basically been cut and pasted where we used to have tunguskas, because their capability is roughly equivalent minus the range difference.
Quick addition, the pantsir’s radar in comparison to actually good SAMs such as IRIS-T SLM is also very susceptible to jamming. The F-16 just folds it. Imagine if WT simulated that…
Another thing DCS has is the IRIS-T SLM, which there:
- works
- actually tracks things
- actually rejects flares
- can actually intercept munitions
- has the range and kinematics it should
- lofts the way it should
producing a weapon far, far more threatening than the pantsir ever could be. I have no clue where you got this idea that the pantsir is the peak of air defense.
I’d like to remind you that, in real life, the Pantsir regularly misses slow-moving drones and even failed to bring down a passenger plane on its first missile while it was approaching for landing.
1 Like
Okay, don’t gotta be agressive about it mate. Definetly not doubting your reading capibilities.
From what I’m seeing you are correct, so I will just go back and double-chceck my sources, that’s all
To be fair, the Pantsir in DCS is the S-1, with an older search radar and a PESA track radar. I already noted that it has troubles acquiring certain targets like Brimstones (In WarThunder)
Investing some time in the forums.
You’re saying this as if the IRISTs radar isn’t more or less suscetpible to the same jamming, if WarThunder simulated that, given it’s not redfor vs bluefor (which means it will almost always be fighting against western nations) they would realistically suffer the same issues of jamming.
Please keep in mind the IRIST-SLM has a way, way more advanced radar than the Pantsir S-1 and is a much newer vehicle, than the Pantsir S-1. The IRIST is NOT a shorad. The Pantsir is.
2024 system vs the S-1 that was rolled out in the 90s/2000s.
They fulfill very different roles, and just like in WarThunder, the normal long range SAMS are moresuscecptible to close-range engagments when the gap is closed.
Currently this thread is focused on the much more modern iteration of the Pantsir, so in DCSs case anyways, comparing the 2024 SAM vs the 2000s Shorad is questionable at best. So it’s no surprise the IRIST would be more threatning in the sccope it’s supposed to be threatning in. I only brought it up becacuse the complaints on arrival were quite similar to what we have now.
1 Like
As I said before, WarThunder simulates almost a perfect envrionment with no defencies. A lot of vehicles share similarly “unrealistic” mechanics so on and so forth.
1 Like
Yeah you’re right, that’s when it was actually put into service, I mentioned the devolopment dates.
then you should be comparing it to 2014 when slm was tested
1 Like
That’s tested… versus when it was actually put into service… so I wouldn’t really compare it from then too now. Seeing the iteration of the IRIST we have currently is the modern iteration.
ok so why are you comparing 2 different dates
if you want to use SLM service entry you need to use the 2012 pantsir entering service
if you want to use pantser being developed you should say ~2010 when the slm was being developed
1 Like
Both are PESA.
It does not. Source: using it.
The IRIS-T’s radar is an AESA and handles the jamming far better. The missiles themselves do not care about jamming because they are IR.
Not in the slightest, although knowing gaijin the pantsir’s radar will be jamming-proof while everything else will suffer from them.
The radar is 2018 tech. The missile itself is an IRIS-T (late 90s early 2000s tech) with a booster. The full system entered service 2024.
You mean 2012?
No they don’t. IRIS-T is very much a SHORAD system. It’s just also better across the board and therefore outranges pantsir anyways. They actually have about the same minimum range (when comparing 95ya6 and IRIS-T SLM. Both 1km.)
IRIS-T is not a long range SAM.
Faulty reasoning as pointed out before.
The IRIS-T is more threatening across the pantsir’s entire engagement scope plus some because it’s longer range.
So you want me to compare the Pantsir S-1 that was actually put into service roughly around 2012 vs the IRIST that was in a testing phase around 2014-2015, and then released in 2022.
I’m comparing 2 different dates becacuse that is currently what is provided. The more reasonable comparison would be the mosst modern version of the Pantsir vs the IRIST since those dates would be within closer proximity and would make more sense.
no
I want you to compare either 2012 to 2022/2024
or early 2000s to ~2010
whereas you are taking different dates for each vehicle instead of choosing to compare either service entry or development dates
1 Like
Both?
The SM-SV uses an AESA radar, the S-1 and S-2 uses a PESA, all other iterations moving forward useds AESA radars, with a few exceptions.
I’ll take your word for it.
Yes the IR missles would not care about jamming, but obviously…jamming is supposed to prevent the missles from getting launched in the 1st place, and since again, this game isn’t a dedicated refor vs bluefor, I’d assume and sort of jamming would effect all nations equally gameplay wise.
That’s still 6 years newer along with time to put in more improvments versus the older system and as I said, there’s really no point in comparing an older system to a newer system. It makes more sense to compare the newest systems to eachc other.
Yea, my mistake.
I mean… that comes down to the doctorine of the military using it. They technically are all SHORADS but in the Pantsirs case, it was devoloped to protect the actual SAM sites, versus the IRIST just kind of operating on it’s own terms.
Plays down to doctorine and how it’s being used. But in WarThunders case, the moment you get close enough, it becomes quite pointless for them. Or you just carpet bomb them…
Well yeah, as I said it operates completely different from the Pantsir and doesn’t need LOS to engage targets.
1 Like
Source?
And the AESA radar on IRIS-T as for the AESA radars on most western SAMs are far less affected by jamming as they’re much more advanced.
So why is it worse in WT? curious!
What are you even trying to argue here??
No it doesn’t. IRIS-T is superior in every regard.
It does, it uses AESA for search
Track is still PESA
2 Likes
Search is different, that’s not what’s getting jammed.
(To disable the fire control, I mean. Pantsir cannot effectively engage if the TR is being jammed.)
Just to back up what I said.
And no, i have no idea where this came from, I think it is the only written proof of it being AESA, but that is enough I guess
2 Likes
Okay let me clear this up. The whoel 2012 and 2024 thing was mainly delegated to DCS, not so much WarThunder.
I meant to strictly go off entry to service dates and not testing or devolopment dates, because anything can change within that period.
What I’m saying, is that there is 0 point in cocmparing the 2012 Pantsir S-1 to more modern iterations of SAM systems, not just the IRIST. Sky Sabre went into service in what… 2021?
Since this thread is focused on the SM-SV anyways whichc is the most modern iteration, that would be the more reasonable comparision to other modern variants.
My point was that your entire comparison to DCS is pointless because in DCS where pantsir is mildly more threatening than a Tunguska, the western SAMs (which are nigh on useless in game, like IRIS-T) are far superior to the pantsir across the board.
Where are those years of development in game where the pantsir S1, SM-SV superweapon entirely aside, outclasses 2020+ systems across the board?? Even at long range (since you like to claim these are “long range SAMs”) the western systems have absurd drag causing heavy limitations while the pantsirs can both fairly comfortably engage out to their maximum range
1 Like