Start hovering in your AH-64E
Gets a 0.5sec radar signal from a Pantsir SM-SV
Instantly DIES 0.5sec later
That’s the current state of 13.0 GRB
10 Likes
As I previously said, HOJ would fix the issues for LDIRCM helis. But gaijin will never add it
Well that’s the thing, I don’t think our modern SAMs should be fighting aircraft below later 4th gen in the first place, decompression would be needed.
It’s HELLA compressed when the F-5E and F-4E can naturally face a regular Pantsir at all…
Not sound logic when the SPAA is doing all the work on the multi-vehicle SPAA that make use of them, as you’re providing little to no input for its usage other than target selection and firing, and there being some kind of right way to play it suggests it lies within those two actions. The missile and radar does the rest for you, and being able to multipath it is one of its greatest counters. I’m fully against it being added unless it’s alongside ECM and decompression ofc, but it’s also not like it can’t be defeated in other ways.
People thought the same about ARH, which ended up not being an end all type of thing but it is still a struggle to face when you’re without any yes. We’ll have to see, and I was specifically referring to it being present for exclusive usage against ground targets anyway, as a sort of test there specifically.
It would change the entire setting dramatically, without other things alongside perhaps it would, but it’d still be a larger overhaul that’d require multiple things for multiple nations to be viable, there no way to definitively know that. Electronic warfare and ARMs will come one day regardless, a multipathing change is all that’s left on the table.
Oh I know about photocontrast lol, but I’m still terrified of it regardless given its lethality and how hard it is to detect their presence (then again hard for them to detect ours as well)
So all shorten
-Russia Main saying it was very much needed
-People with no planes research saying “Who cares” like balancing stuff should be only done when THEY are the one interested
-This new SPAA being absolutely busted
-Player count plumbing to the ground as top tier its unplayable for most for one reason or another
Amazing…as someone else said,cant wait to not play the game
7 Likes
yes well decompression isnt happening, or wont to a significant point so this point is entirely moot no matter what either of us thinks.
common example in GRB. You kill someone in a tank. They instantly respawn in ARH SPAA. You try to hit the deck in time to avoid missiles from them as youre too close to notch in time.
Now look at the same example without MP. Youre simply just dead. SPAA costs are way lower than a plane meaning that under most common circumstances every person youll kill in a plane, russian, american, swedish, german doesnt matter what nation you play its literally the same either way they will all have enough SP to spawn SPAA.
Some SPAAs you might be able to notch in time if youre sufficiently far away but in general most of the actually good SPAAs will just molest you especially if youre close to the map. Its very cool to think in a vacuum of “theres one SPAA and one plane” but thats not happening. Youre not fighting just a single SPAA vast majority of the time and even if you manage to notch 1 theres still more, each firing one or more missiles. MP adds a way for CAS to be able to approach the battlefield without instantly crumbling into 7 billion parts.
So yes, looking at “but my missile couldnt hit them because MP” without thinking more broadly is extremely narrowminded. Many planes like typhoons or gripens (hell anything with mavericks really) require you to be within close range to make the probability of a hit even possible.
So again, the people that generally call for MP to be gone, especially when 40 meters of the 60m range is mostly already occupied by trees, simply just say so because they dont know how to play SPAA.
And as for type03 because its been thrown here before, what it needs is not for the missile to ignore MP but for it to get an entirely new missile, preferably something with TVC (idk if the type 03 Kai missile is TVC). Or thai MICA VLs because the type 03 has its issues atm. The radar vehicle is probably the best part of the system, but the missiles simply having a deadzone of 5km is whats making the system be awful to use. Additionally tansamkai either needs a fix to the radars acquisition and refresh timer or just let it use the type 03 radar.
and would you look at that, facing fox 3s on something like MK2/MKK when youre in something with only sparrows is ultra awful. Almost as if they were correct in saying that fox 3 carrying planes should simply not see fox1/2 only planes unless their FM is absolutely abysmal (AV8B+, Tornado, KWS, you get the idea)
yes, for the worse. Because youre not counting map design into your decision, youre not counting a lot of things into it. Many maps provide no cover to approach the battlefield, many maps spawn you in sight of SPAAs, a fair amount of maps literally have airfields in direct line of sight of SPAAs.
Electronic warfare in war thunder is not only going to be limited in scope and function (its a game) its also not going to fix much. ARMs are at this point needed especially due to the latest addition to russia but more complicated jammers are not going to fix anything.
Instead of getting rid of MP gaijin need to make radars more reliable at picking and holding targets, especially on slower rotation radars like tansamkai, SLM, etc. radars that are AESA yet ingame function no different from mechanical ones. Hell a gepard radar is more reliable at holding a plane in sight than SLM the quote on quote state of the art SPAA.
if at one point multipath will be gone, which i hope not but in case it will, i am pretty sure i will not be playing this game anymore. Im not a “CAS main” hell i mainly play SPAAs and light tanks but even i can see that this would be an awful decision to add into the game. The game is a TDM with miniscule maps. There is no planning, no coordination like youd have in an RTS. It should remain arcade-like instead of trying to turn it into DCS
Go play WT guys go play WT
We need LOAL and better helipad spawns at this point. Nothing justifies things like mmW Brimstones and Hellfires being nerfed when this new Pantsir can deal with everything thrown at it.
5 Likes
Not gonna lie,i will stop playing this game after i get the Tu95 till i get news this game its playable again
Yeah the balancing team of Gaijin should be fired at this point
1 Like
It might be playable again with the infantry mode
New mode, fresh mode, fresh start
GRB is kinda cooked forever ngl
The other helipad spawns are much needed indeed
We have 16/25km IR missiles, but spawn at max 8km I think. So you have to go back and back so far behind the map…
But whatever would the heli players do if they couldn’t hover above their helipad and fire over a hundred missiles over the course of a few minutes?
3 Likes
See, it’s not fun for heli pilots to be almost beat into supression, but it wasn’t fun for ground players when they’ve pretty much been doing the same thing before any of these SAMS got added.
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They didn’t.
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Even based on what these stats provide, a good portion of the community has had issues with them in ground battles regardless.
Maybe it could be pereption, but generally any helicopter that is left unattended will see to be quite a powerful tool.
Helicopters are part of the battlefield. They should perform, but not so much (like LMURs). SPAAs should be part of the battlefield as well, but not perform too much as well (like the SM-SV)
It’s all about balance. Helis and SPAAs are important, but they shouldn’t be op
A good portion of the community has issues with cas just because cas exist and when they call for “balance” they just want useless cas. It’s fine if people want it, but don’t justify it by calling for balance, because it leads to the opposite.
Stat wise helicopters were fine or rather weak, given their sp cost even before all this new spaa. Now only 13.0 helicopter are relevant and almost any other helicopter have awful or ± same stat as MBT on the same br.
Anything that is left unattended (helicopter, plane, spawn camper, flanker) will see to be quite a powerful tool.
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They can spawn tanks you know? just like everyone else.
Honestly, I would love to see the situation, where everything is tuned to their best known, how the game would shift.
1 Like